I don’t see how this is helpful. I guess you’re trying to remove incentives for joining the military? But really you’re just punishing veterans with PTSD. Keep in mind the military, at least in America, recruits what are effectively kids and then makes it a crime to disobey orders or quit. I’m not saying soldiers aren’t responsible for their actions, but also that kinda feels like punishing the working class for the crimes of the ruling class.
But really you’re just punishing veterans with PTSD
Failing to give special treatment to someone is not punishing them. Especially when we’re talking about special treatment for an entire category of people, most of whom don’t have PTSD (estimates range from 6-27% of those deployed to a war zone, and not all veterans served in a war zone), many of whom are financially well off.
Maybe the VA and the federal government should do more for vets. Maybe the military itself should take care of the troops a bit better. But asking private businesses to prop up veterans at their own expense seems like a misguided approach.
I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
I’m also mostly speaking from my first hand experience with a vet with PTSD. But it’s very possible that experience isn’t representative of your average vet. But I’m trying to approach the situation with empathy for those fucked over by the government.
I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
100% I agree the system needs to change. But what I asking is do you immediately remove the badaids on the current system? Or do you leave those bandaids in place until the current system is changed?
Edit: genuinely I don’t see how downvoting me without providing an alternative solution is helpful. If you think you understand how we fix the underlying system, I want to know the answer. All I’m asking is how do we fix the system without hurting working class people in the process (e.g. denying restaurant wait staff the tips they rely on to pay rent).
That’s the federal government’s administration of a federal government program, so no, that’s not the same at all.
Why do you tip servers in America?
That’s the basic deal. If a restaurant implements a no tipping policy, they’re allowed to do that. I don’t see how that’s the same or different from a restaurant implementing a “discount for veterans” or “no discounts for veterans” policy. It sounds like we’re in favor of a system where the restaurant chooses what they want to be about, whether it’s a tip-based system or not, or a discounts for vets place or not.
So in a sense, it sounds like you agree with me that we should let the restaurants choose. Neither choice is a “punishment” of anyone.
I agree that the underlying system needs to be changed. But what I’m saying is you have a system that is not ideal, and you have bandaids on that system. For example, it’s very not ideal that restaurant servers depends on tips for a living. However, if you stop tipping without requiring restaurants to pay servers a living wage, aren’t you screwing over the server, not the restaurant? Or do you leave those bandaids in place while you try and fundamentally change the underlying system?
I’m asking. I don’t know the history of how systems like this have been changed in the past. But the examples I gave, in my mind, are all systems in US that are broken and have bandaid solutions. It’s not ideal that we offer better services to vets with PTSD, it’s not ideal that restaurant wait staff requires tips to pay rent, and it’s not ideal that student loans are required to pay for an education.
I don’t see how this is helpful. I guess you’re trying to remove incentives for joining the military? But really you’re just punishing veterans with PTSD. Keep in mind the military, at least in America, recruits what are effectively kids and then makes it a crime to disobey orders or quit. I’m not saying soldiers aren’t responsible for their actions, but also that kinda feels like punishing the working class for the crimes of the ruling class.
Failing to give special treatment to someone is not punishing them. Especially when we’re talking about special treatment for an entire category of people, most of whom don’t have PTSD (estimates range from 6-27% of those deployed to a war zone, and not all veterans served in a war zone), many of whom are financially well off.
Maybe the VA and the federal government should do more for vets. Maybe the military itself should take care of the troops a bit better. But asking private businesses to prop up veterans at their own expense seems like a misguided approach.
I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
I’m also mostly speaking from my first hand experience with a vet with PTSD. But it’s very possible that experience isn’t representative of your average vet. But I’m trying to approach the situation with empathy for those fucked over by the government.
Yes! Yes! YES!
Obviously the answer is to change the system.
100% I agree the system needs to change. But what I asking is do you immediately remove the badaids on the current system? Or do you leave those bandaids in place until the current system is changed?
Edit: genuinely I don’t see how downvoting me without providing an alternative solution is helpful. If you think you understand how we fix the underlying system, I want to know the answer. All I’m asking is how do we fix the system without hurting working class people in the process (e.g. denying restaurant wait staff the tips they rely on to pay rent).
That’s the federal government’s administration of a federal government program, so no, that’s not the same at all.
That’s the basic deal. If a restaurant implements a no tipping policy, they’re allowed to do that. I don’t see how that’s the same or different from a restaurant implementing a “discount for veterans” or “no discounts for veterans” policy. It sounds like we’re in favor of a system where the restaurant chooses what they want to be about, whether it’s a tip-based system or not, or a discounts for vets place or not.
So in a sense, it sounds like you agree with me that we should let the restaurants choose. Neither choice is a “punishment” of anyone.
I agree that the underlying system needs to be changed. But what I’m saying is you have a system that is not ideal, and you have bandaids on that system. For example, it’s very not ideal that restaurant servers depends on tips for a living. However, if you stop tipping without requiring restaurants to pay servers a living wage, aren’t you screwing over the server, not the restaurant? Or do you leave those bandaids in place while you try and fundamentally change the underlying system?
I’m asking. I don’t know the history of how systems like this have been changed in the past. But the examples I gave, in my mind, are all systems in US that are broken and have bandaid solutions. It’s not ideal that we offer better services to vets with PTSD, it’s not ideal that restaurant wait staff requires tips to pay rent, and it’s not ideal that student loans are required to pay for an education.
None of this entitles them to a discount.