• Eldritch@piefed.world
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    23 hours ago

    While you aren’t wrong about human nature. I’d say you’re wrong about systems. How would the same thing happen under an anarchist system? Or under an actual communist (not Marxist-Leninist) system? Which account for human nature and focus to use it against itself.

    • Ofiuco@piefed.ca
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      23 hours ago

      It will happen regardless because we are not machines, we don’t follow theory, laws, instructions or whatever a system tells us to perfectly and without little changes here and there.

      • pebbles@sh.itjust.works
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        22 hours ago

        I think you are underestimating how adaptable humans are. We absolutely conform to the systems that govern us, and they are NOT equally likely to produce bad outcomes.

        • JargonWagon@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          Every system eventually ends with someone corrupted with power and greed wanting more. Putin and his oligrachs, Trump and his oligarchs… Xi isn’t great, but at least I haven’t heard news about the Uyghurs situation for a couple of years now. Hope things are better there nowadays and people aren’t going missing anymore just for speaking out against their government.

          • pebbles@sh.itjust.works
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            14 hours ago

            I mean you’d have to be pretty smart to make the perfect system. Things failing isn’t proof that things can’t be better.

      • Eldritch@piefed.world
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        22 hours ago

        I see, so you don’t understand. Or simply refuse to engage with what was asked.

    • Ace T'Ken@lemmy.ca
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      21 hours ago

      I’ll answer. Because some people see these systems as “good” regardless of political affiliation and want them furthered and see any cost as worth it. If an anarchist / communist sees these systems in a positive light, then they will absolutely try and use them at scale. These people absolutely exist and you could find many examples of them on Lemmy. Try DB0.

      • Eldritch@piefed.world
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        17 hours ago

        And the point of anarchist or actual communist systems is that such scale would be miniscule. Not massive national or unanswerable state scales.

        And yes, I’m an anarchist. I know DB0 and their instance and generally agree with their stance - because it would allow any one of us to effectively advocate against it if we desired to.

        There would be no tech broligarchy forcing things on anyone. They’d likely all be hanged long ago. And no one would miss them as they provide nothing of real value anyway.

        • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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          13 hours ago

          And the point of anarchist or actual communist systems is that such scale would be miniscule.

          Every community running their own AI would be even more wasteful than corporate centralization. It doesn’t matter what the system is if people want it.

          • Eldritch@piefed.world
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            9 hours ago

            The point is, most wouldn’t. It’s of little real use currently, especially the LLM bullshit. The communities would have infinitely better things to pit resources to.

            • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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              3 hours ago

              The point is, most wouldn’t.

              People currently want it despite it being stupid which is why corporations are in a frenzy to be the monopoly that provides it. People want all sorts of stupid things. A different system wouldn’t change that.

        • Ace T'Ken@lemmy.ca
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          16 hours ago

          DB0 has a rather famous record of banning users who do not agree with AI. See [email protected] or others for many threads complaining about it.

          You have no way of knowing what the scale would be as it’s all a thought experiment, however, so let’s play at that. if you see AI as a nearly universal good and want to encourage people to use it, why not incorporate it into things? Why not foist it into the state OS or whatever?

          Buuuuut… keep in mind that in previous Communist regimes (even if you disagree that they were “real” Communists), what the state says will apply. If the state is actively pro-AI, then by default, you are using it. Are you too good to use what your brothers and sisters have said is good and will definitely 100% save labour? Are you wasteful, Comrade? Why do you hate your country?

          • Eldritch@piefed.world
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            8 hours ago

            Yes, I have seen posts on it. Sufficed to say, despite being an anarchist. I don’t have an account there for reasons. And don’t agree with everything they do.

            The situation with those bans I might consider heavy handed and perhaps overreaching. But by the same token it’s a bit of a reflection of some of those that are banned. Overzealous and lacking nuance etc.

            The funny thing is. They pretty much dislike the tech bros as much as anyone here does. You generally won’t ever find them defending their actions. They want AI etc that they can run from their home. Not snarfing up massive public resources, massively contributing to climate change, or stealing anyone’s livelihood. Hell many of them want to run off the grid from wind and solar. But, as always happens with the left. We can agree with eachother 90%, but will never tolerate or understand because of the 10%.

            PS

            We do know the scale. Your use of “the state” with reference to anarchism. Implies you’re unfamiliar with it. Anarchism and communism are against “the state” for the reasons you’re also warry of it. It’s too powerful and unanswerable.