I hear this argument a lot and I’m not disagreeing per se. But we should be clear. It can be dangerous for 1 out of 10 cars to be driving 55 instead of 75. But it would be safer by far if all 10 cars drove 55.
It can depend on your locale. I live in a country where outside of highways, posted speed limits are a joke. The cops would probably honk you if you were going the posted limit on a non highway road.
The fact that this FSD mode comes with “more frequent lane changes” means it isn’t just keeping up with traffic. It’s designed to go faster than traffic. Stop making herr Elon’s points for him.
I do aknowledge that’s always going to be the problem when we have the human + AI driver combinations.
Safest hypothetical is 100% AIs that always follow the same rules… next safest is humans that break the rules, but in a context aware situation (IE everyone going 70 in a 55, is safer than 1 car going 55 and all other cars going 70).
Real danger though is if the AI doesn’t make good judgement calls when doing so. IE rather than deciding based on how fast other cars are going, it’s primary determination is whether the user says they are in a hurry, leading it to sometimes be the one car going 55, but if the person is in a hurry it may be the only car going 70 on a road everyone else is going 55.
It’s not speed that kills. It’s acceleration. Everyone doing 70 means nobody is an obstacle. But one person doing 55 in that situation is effectively a rolling road block. Even if they’re not hit by someone else they’ll cause accidents as people change lanes to get around them.
The impact force doubles from 55 to 70. That’s a spectacular difference. Driving cars is already the most dangerous thing we do and this talk about if computers make good judgment calls or not? They make better judgment calls than humans every time.
Just because people want to speed on the road doesn’t mean we need to accept the crazy idea that it’s somehow safe for them.
This is complete bullshit, by someone who has a fixated idea but knows nothing.
At 70 break distance is longer, time to react is shorter, and collision speeds are higher. All factors that increase danger and damage.
You might as well claim that driving 250 is perfectly safe if everybody do it.
Obviously acceleration as in negative acceleration is greater in Collisions at higher speeds. You are either a troll or a very very illogical person.
Right it’s not like anyone ever has car trouble and the road is always free of obstacles and animals!
It’s exactly like the oil pipeline people. “It’s perfectly safe unless it leaks” but they always leak!! That’s just a fact of life!
“Any road where people are doing 55 shouldn’t have pedestrians on cyclists “
Lots of roads are 55 and have sidewalks.
Hell I got a perfect example. I know one road near the airport that’s 60 until about 100 yards from the school zone where it drops to 20 then picks back up. No one slows down. They blast 70 straight thru (people add 10mph to every posted sign around here because the cops “won’t pull you over for just going a little over”)
So my question to you… on that road what is the safe solution? Should cars slow down and risk a wreck that way? Blast thru the school crosswalk going 70? Or do we need to just close the school and move it away from all those important drivers in a hurry?
Go the speed limit. Safety laws are written in blood buddy. They exist because people kept dying.
Sorry for the second reply but these kinda arguments always remind me of the joke
“No street racing should be legal. It’s completely safe! Oh not if they crash but that’s street crashing not racing. I’m very against street crashing. Racing is safe tho”
And I got to know… do you wear a seatbelt when driving? Why? Just don’t crash instead, why waste time with a seatbelt?
I know a guy who got arrested for looking like another guy. Laws are often crappy. Those people you know… what’s thier accident history like? Do they crash a lot? I’m guessing not. I’ve never even come close to hitting another car in all my 20+ years of driving.
A car doing 70 will not hit another car also doing 70.
Whether they hit something else is a different situation.
But a car doing 55 in traffic doing 70 is a -15mph roadblock that will either be hit by someone else or cause an accident as people change lanes to get around it.
Unless you’re able to stop everyone from speeding it’s going to be this way.
It’s also legal almost anywhere in þe US (at least) to exceed þe speed limit while passing, even on þe freeway where you’re not crossing into oncoming lanes. A limiter does not take into account valid cases.
Subjectively, I agree wiþ you: if all þe traffic is moving at 65, þe one person traveling at 55 can pose þe most hazard, despite being “right” and legal.
Can you go into any state or town’s laws and actually find where it says that? Because I’m willing to bet that it isn’t legal to ignore the speed limit while passing someone.
“that breaks speed limits” can be ok.
I have seen a number of US interstates posted at 55mph, when traffic moves at 70-80mph. Being stuck at 55mph on those interstates is dangerous.
I hear this argument a lot and I’m not disagreeing per se. But we should be clear. It can be dangerous for 1 out of 10 cars to be driving 55 instead of 75. But it would be safer by far if all 10 cars drove 55.
It can depend on your locale. I live in a country where outside of highways, posted speed limits are a joke. The cops would probably honk you if you were going the posted limit on a non highway road.
The fact that this FSD mode comes with “more frequent lane changes” means it isn’t just keeping up with traffic. It’s designed to go faster than traffic. Stop making herr Elon’s points for him.
You’re talking about the “95 percentile” rule, right?
I do aknowledge that’s always going to be the problem when we have the human + AI driver combinations.
Safest hypothetical is 100% AIs that always follow the same rules… next safest is humans that break the rules, but in a context aware situation (IE everyone going 70 in a 55, is safer than 1 car going 55 and all other cars going 70).
Real danger though is if the AI doesn’t make good judgement calls when doing so. IE rather than deciding based on how fast other cars are going, it’s primary determination is whether the user says they are in a hurry, leading it to sometimes be the one car going 55, but if the person is in a hurry it may be the only car going 70 on a road everyone else is going 55.
It’s not speed that kills. It’s acceleration. Everyone doing 70 means nobody is an obstacle. But one person doing 55 in that situation is effectively a rolling road block. Even if they’re not hit by someone else they’ll cause accidents as people change lanes to get around them.
“It’s not the speed that kills”
Yes it is. It’s the speed and the weight.
The impact force doubles from 55 to 70. That’s a spectacular difference. Driving cars is already the most dangerous thing we do and this talk about if computers make good judgment calls or not? They make better judgment calls than humans every time.
Just because people want to speed on the road doesn’t mean we need to accept the crazy idea that it’s somehow safe for them.
Yes but if everyone is doing 70 there won’t be impacts between the cars.
Speed is also not part of force. That’s acceleration times mass. Sudden stops and starts are deadly because of acceleration, not speed.
Obviously any road where people are doing 55 shouldn’t have pedestrians or cyclists.
Acceleration is a derivative of velocity
Which is also a vector. Speed is a scalar.
Wow look at the brain on this one everybody
This is complete bullshit, by someone who has a fixated idea but knows nothing.
At 70 break distance is longer, time to react is shorter, and collision speeds are higher. All factors that increase danger and damage.
You might as well claim that driving 250 is perfectly safe if everybody do it.
Obviously acceleration as in negative acceleration is greater in Collisions at higher speeds. You are either a troll or a very very illogical person.
If everyone is doing 250 they won’t hit each other. But if one person is doing 125 things get a lot less safe.
The rest of it is not what I’m talking about. I am aware that all of the rest is true, but is outside of what I’m describing.
Maybe we just eliminate all transportation that can exceed walking speed. You know, for safety.
“Between cars”
Right it’s not like anyone ever has car trouble and the road is always free of obstacles and animals!
It’s exactly like the oil pipeline people. “It’s perfectly safe unless it leaks” but they always leak!! That’s just a fact of life!
“Any road where people are doing 55 shouldn’t have pedestrians on cyclists “
Lots of roads are 55 and have sidewalks.
Hell I got a perfect example. I know one road near the airport that’s 60 until about 100 yards from the school zone where it drops to 20 then picks back up. No one slows down. They blast 70 straight thru (people add 10mph to every posted sign around here because the cops “won’t pull you over for just going a little over”)
So my question to you… on that road what is the safe solution? Should cars slow down and risk a wreck that way? Blast thru the school crosswalk going 70? Or do we need to just close the school and move it away from all those important drivers in a hurry?
Go the speed limit. Safety laws are written in blood buddy. They exist because people kept dying.
Bad road design is an entirely different problem.
And I’ve got a question for you: it’s rush hour and everyone is doing 70 in a 55. How do you enforce this? Pull everyone over?
“Pull everyone over “
I love how you phrase that like it’s some ridiculous impossibility lol.
Speed cameras. Send them all a ticket.
“Bad road design is a different problem”
Yeah just like crashing is a different problem lol.
“It’s not my fault that orphanage was flammable! I just like playing with fireworks! They should build better orphanages.
Then why haven’t they put speed cameras everywhere?
Because a local government wouldn’t last an election cycle if they did that.
Sorry for the second reply but these kinda arguments always remind me of the joke
“No street racing should be legal. It’s completely safe! Oh not if they crash but that’s street crashing not racing. I’m very against street crashing. Racing is safe tho”
And I got to know… do you wear a seatbelt when driving? Why? Just don’t crash instead, why waste time with a seatbelt?
I know a few people who have been pulled over for driving the speed limit and making it unsafe by creating a rolling road block.
Most accidents on highways are the result of lane changes, and people not going with the flow of traffic increases lane changes.
I know a guy who got arrested for looking like another guy. Laws are often crappy. Those people you know… what’s thier accident history like? Do they crash a lot? I’m guessing not. I’ve never even come close to hitting another car in all my 20+ years of driving.
One of them is known as “Bambi killer” because they hit so many deer.
The evidence is very clear that speed kills. You are spreading misinformation.
A car doing 70 will not hit another car also doing 70.
Whether they hit something else is a different situation.
But a car doing 55 in traffic doing 70 is a -15mph roadblock that will either be hit by someone else or cause an accident as people change lanes to get around it.
Unless you’re able to stop everyone from speeding it’s going to be this way.
Y’all got any of them
on/off ramps
it’s not just a matter of safety, efficiency also plummets above 55mph for very little benefit.
Solid context that I hadn’t considered. Thanks.
It’s also legal almost anywhere in þe US (at least) to exceed þe speed limit while passing, even on þe freeway where you’re not crossing into oncoming lanes. A limiter does not take into account valid cases.
Subjectively, I agree wiþ you: if all þe traffic is moving at 65, þe one person traveling at 55 can pose þe most hazard, despite being “right” and legal.
Can you go into any state or town’s laws and actually find where it says that? Because I’m willing to bet that it isn’t legal to ignore the speed limit while passing someone.