Former President Joe Biden experienced such “cognitive decline” while in office that it remains a serious question as to whether he was aware of the substance of the various pardons and commutations signed in his name via autopen, the GOP-controlled House Oversight Committee asserted in a letter it sent to Attorney General Pam Bondi, urging her to consider whether that clemency might be invalid and to take action for potential prosecution against some of Biden’s aides.
The committee “deems void President Biden’s executive actions that were signed using the Autopen, and the committee determines that action by the Department of Justice is warranted to address the legal consequences of that determination,” it wrote to Bondi released Tuesday morning.
Former President Joe Biden experienced such “cognitive decline” while in office that it remains a serious question as to whether he was aware of the substance of the various pardons and commutations signed in his name via autopen . . .
If you’re going to make that claim, then there’s no particular reason to bring up the autopen. He was either aware of what he was signing or he wasn’t.
Naturally, they won’t use the same argument on Trump despite far more evidence of cognitive decline.
Trump is pardoning so many people it could be argued that the volume makes it unlikely he’s “aware of the substance of the various pardons and commutations”.
As with anything else here, “auto pen” is one of the objects of aggrievement Trump’s leaky puddle of a brain has clinged in to, and the handlers throw it in these memos to appease him. It’s the exact same reason he is still ranting about the navy’s catapults. I guarantee you that in private he does nothing but talk random times people have disagreed with him over the years.
Do they really want to set this precedent?
Lol you expect the GOP to live up to a standard they place on other people? I thought the whole reason for being a Republican was to tell others what to do while trying to ignore the people as much as possible.
Lol they don’t care, they don’t follow precedent, that is one of the major reasons they are winning so decisively.
From the last time this was brought up, it had been pointed out that the courts have previously said that that presidential pardons do not even need to be written
A 2024 federal appeals court decision said a pardon doesn’t even have to be in writing. “The answer is undoubtedly no,” the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled. “The plain language of the Constitution imposes no such limit.”
SCOTUS “Turns out pardons not signed by pen are void. However tthis only applies to President’s not named Donald J. Trump. It’s in the Consitution. No, you can’t see the real consitution. The real consitution is in Canada for safe keeping.”
Actual legality doesn’t matter. It’s a pretext.
Not to mention that using ANY mark is considered a signature, no matter the method of affixing it to the document. It’s an ADA compliance thing - you can’t discriminate based on the method of signing.
So they are opening the door for voiding presidential pardons based on competency? That’s going to be interesting in 3 years. I think conflict of interest could be considered just as compromising as cognitive decline. Could also have implications for Oliver North.
But also, the way Trump always claims he doesn’t know anything about <that>, I would suggest he also is unaware of what is being done in his name, regardless of who holds the pen.
interesting in the way that the democrats will do nothing about it and then when the GOP gets back in they’ll make it worse.
Old dems are ded dude. They didn’t do anything before and that was their MO … true.
But the reason they will do nothing about it in the future is that they’re ghosts, electoral echoes of cynical centrist complacency.
The new dems will be different simply because they clearly must be different to even win votes.
God I hope you’re right.
It’s interesting you think everything is just gonna continue on like normal. Republicans are never relinquishing power again. There will be no more Democratic party in three years.
People like you on Lemmy really annoy me, always negative about anything said about politics. Are you trying to kill hope? I honestly don’t see what your comment adds to the discussion.
Pretending everything goes back to “normal” in 3 years doesn’t add much either. Hope is fine, but without action is just delusion. Just voting isn’t gonna cut it. People need to be aware and to prepare. Republicans will not relinquish power peacefully. They’ve done too much that will require accountability. They will not allow that, and they literally have a violent private army filled with violent offenders with a larger budget than the Marines, and they have seized the public coffers to ensure loyalty. This is all out in the open. Everything they are doing, they would not do if there was the possibility of the transfer of power and eventually accountability.
There’s a powerful normalcy bias at work here. People can acknowledge a long list of ways the “American way of life” is circling the drain, but day to day it feels like things will basically be the same. People keep going to work, paying into retirement, and planning holiday vacations.
We’re stuck with the choice of voting for someone who will accelerate the decent into authoritarianism or voting for someone who won’t stop it.
Where should we find the hope?
That’s not the option, but the authoritarians would have it that way if allowed.
What is the option then?
Ideally the best option is running for office. But you need money, and you need to actually want to do it
Hope is for people who want to sit around doing nothing while they wait for things to spontaneously get better all on their own.
But there will be something, correct? Some fight, some resistance. Assuming you’re not planning on giving up that is.
And you can call the stubborn cunts of that resistance whatever you like, but good money’s on something with a lot of high-value name recognition like, I dunno, “democrats” or something.
Federal government representatives are calling the Democratic party terrorists on national television. There will be something, but it won’t be an organized political party. The Republicans will not cede power peacefully ever again. I honestly can’t tell you what that will look like because I didn’t know how much Americans will put up with, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that Republicans will not give up federal power without violence. They are already actively violent.
They certainly are, I agree! But they’re cowards.
Republicans only want to fight the weakest opponents, in rigged matches, and they still gotta cheat. Even a little resistance, when we stand together, dissolves their cotton candy confidence.
I was lucky enough to see a small piece of what that kind of resistance looks like on Sunday after canvassing. The organizers did us a solid and got us into a rally in queens that was packed. The energy was really encouraging, especially seeing all the other volunteers and various groups that are actually showing up, to help and to fight. It mirrors a lot of the grassroots movements and community building popping up in many cities and towns across the country.
It’s encouraging because it illustrates victory directly. Standing up for each other in spite of those threats of violence is courage, and historically that’s the strongest “antifa weapon” we know, because fascism can only lose wherever courage remains.
This won’t go anywhere. There’s plenty of public examples of Biden discussing the pardons. He’s still lucid enough to testify if needed.
Ya know, most countries don’t give one person infinite get out of jail free cards.
We just value freedom here. ~revs big truck, slurps from 32oz diet soda~
32oz? Why did you get a small? It’s diet!
If they’re opening this box what makes you think they’d do it if they wouldn’t still have power in 3 years? Everything they’re doing they’re doing like they’re never gonna not be in power. We should all be paying attention to that.
Bold of you to assume that there will be a change of government in 3 yrs time…
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I mean where is it Cynical at this point… right now there’s the massive redistricting that’s going to give the republicans more house seats even if they get less votes. Trumps been “joking” about a 3rd term from the start. Millitary is literally marching on the streets.
The point isn’t that we need to give up… but we need to realize they are re-writing the rules… Big thing is… just let them have their fun and when it kills them in the next election stance that the democrats took last time, is going to destroy us. We need to look at every possible way to fight back NOW, and have contingencies for when all of our existing failsafes… fail.
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Cool so do the guy who pardoned 1500 insurrectionists and struggles on cognitive ability tests next.
Exactly, let’s see those 1500 signatures, I bet they are all exactly the same. No fucking way he signed 1500 pardons himself that fast.
I think he signed a single blanket pardon, and not 1500 individual documents.
That should be just as invalid as bidens then. It’s too impersonal.
It should be invalid because it’s super fucked up, but unfortunately the people decided that he should have the power to pardon whomever he wants of any crime.
It should be invalid because Trump is a traitor illegally holding office in violation of the 14th amendment because he got to build the courts his first term and too many MFers in the states lack the competency to think.
I had to look at the publication date on that article three times because I thought that there was no way he’s that stupid that he’s still saying this after he said it the first time years ago. Surely someone explained to him how magnets work by now, but nope, the article is from a few days ago, and he has again proven that his stupidity knows no bounds.
Fucking magnets, how do they work? and I don’t want to talk to a scientist, y’all motherfuckers lyin’, and gettin’ me pissed
The only response when people ask you how magnets work.
Whelp. Trump said it, it must be true. He is truth after and has never lied once in his biblically perfect life.
In theory, electromagnets can be damaged by water. But Trump seems to be conflating all kinds of things in his rambling speech.
Such unrelenting assholes and bullshit.
A reminder: Do not let the bastards wear you down. Fight them at every step, be a thorn, be the sand in their gears, always.
Look at this obvious bullshit and gasp.
Biden knew the Nazis would eventually come for his family. This is exactly why he pardoned them (for the bullshit charges) from the GQP before leaving office.
Maybe…
Just maybe…
Biden should have held trump and co accountable for all the illegal shit they did his first term, instead of ignoring it to avoid setting the precedent a president could ever be accountable for breaking the law in office?
Biden chose not to do that. Despite all the harm it would cause the country and all of us
Instead he did some last minute pardons for his own family and left 99.999999% of Americans in the wind.
Now trump is going to set the precedent of holding past presidents accountable, and he’s going to do a bad job of it, and Biden and his family will have to pay a price
If Biden would have done what’s best for America, he never would have had to do those bullshit pardons to begin with
All my thoughts and prayers…
I think these are two separate conversations.
You’re not wrong. Neither am I.
Right we agree:
Biden knew the Nazis would eventually come for his family.
You’re saying Biden only cared about his immediate family
I was just clarifying that if he cared about Americans and looked out for all of us, he’d have protected his family too.
The difference is your comment seems to be sympathetic for the person who refused to the job he said he would, and in the process prevented someone who would have done the job from having the chance
At a surface level you’re feeling sympathy for the person who didn’t give a single fuck about any of us and left us to suffer.
But you were wrong about something:
This is exactly why he pardoned them (for the bullshit charges) from the GQP before leaving office.
His son was a crackhead running around with guns.
He admitted in his book to multiple serious crimes.
Like, if his dad wasn’t Joe Biden, he’d have already been in jail. Biden basically admitted that and promised he wouldn’t pardon him. Because he was guilty.
Then claimed that the only reason he was charged, was the same reason he’s never had to face legal consequences…
And you’re defending a level of corruption that should be unacceptable, because the person Biden refused to hold accountable is more corrupt?
Do you even understand that if both sides are corrupt, maga will win because their voters don’t care?
You’re putting yourself in the position that you have to argue corruption is ok (you literally just did in the initial comment) because trump is worse.
The way we win is being the non corrupt option. And luckily the DNC realized that, and broke away from the neoliberal faction that’s been the problem in the Dem party.
Maybe some day youll realize it too.
Quick edit:
And if you’re gonna say “drug users should be allowed to have guns”…
Biden had the power to change shit, but he didn’t want to.
He just wanted his immediate family to not go to jail.
Again, he could have fixed it for everyone, but he didn’t give a fuck about us, just his immediate circle.
So I don’t have any sympathy, if he had tried to help us all, it would be different and a lot harder for trump to undo now
Holy shit, I hope you have a better day tomorrow.
Goodbye.
I hope you have a better day tomorrow
What?
You think someone upset that Joe Biden allowed trump to be one president again, is just “having a bad day” and “it might get better tomorrow”?
What do you think will change between today and tomorrow?
We wasted four years on Biden, now we have to suffer 3 more years of trump.
Absolutely nothing I’m upset about will be better tomorrow.
Which should be very obvious, yet it still apparently went over your head. You still don’t understand anything that’s happening…
Okie dokie.
Oh ok…
No wonder you don’t know any of this stuff, and apparently me trying to help is going to be futile.
Ignorance is bliss and all. So you probably will have a good day tomorrow.
You don’t understand how fucked shit is, so you’re just bouncing around blissfully unaware and willingly ignorant.
I’m honestly jealous, I’d love to not understand how badly we’re fucked. So I’ll just leave you to it.
Yeah, guilty people go free when the prosecution and trial isn’t fair.
That IS how that’s supposed to work.
Who did you vote for?
I’ve held my nose and voted D every election since I was eligible to vote.
Except 08 when I was excited to vote for Obama.
If you think progressives dont hold their nose and vote for the lesser evil, then I think you’ve been just listening to what billionaire owned media corporations are telling you…
And, in case you haven’t noticed, the wealthy will do/say anything to stop progressives.
I clouding spreading the propaganda you seem to believe.
Calm the fuck down, we’re on the same side in our personal politics. But seriously if you actually think our system of government is valid and should be restored, you can’t fucking blame the Dems for playing by the rules to uphold the fucking system while fuckboi Republicans shit all over the board and strut around like they won. So you need to figure out what you believe and then understand the actual processes involved. Because 98 percent of the blame for everything happening right now is squarely on the voters who either want this or were too privileged to take a basic fuckin interest in civics. Joe fucked up with Comey and Mueller and could have been more vocally aggressive. Legally there was fuckall else he could actually do because, say it with me, fuckass republican obstruction.
you can’t fucking blame the Dems for playing by the rules to uphold the fucking system while fuckboi Republicans shit all over the board and strut around like they won.
This is the problem…
You keep acting like Biden did everything he could but failed.
I’m saying he made a half-assed attempt to “look into” it, with no plans of following through.
Which has been the neoliberal playbook for decades.
Why are you still trusting neoliberals and the billionaires who pay them to obstruct progress like this?
I’m not trying to change your mind about anything. Im trying to understand what logic someone followed to have your views.
Biden, short of behaving like Trump (which the supreme court certainly would have found issue with) had no real power at any point to do any of that due to Republicans in Congress. He fucked up big with Comey and Mueller, we all should have known Republicans have no real integrity, but really there wasn’t anything he could have done short of breaking the system dictator style like Trump is. Biden was behaving according to rules norms and laws. Republicans are unencumbered by such things. Based on your comment you do not have a great idea of how our federal government is actually supposed to function, and mostly did function before the tea party and maga.
Put the blame where it belongs, on every Republican voter and every both sides abstainer. The American people failed an open book test because they couldn’t be fucked to have the most basic understanding of their own government. We’re getting what we deserve.
Put the blame where it belongs, on every Republican voter and every both sides abstainer.
You…
You want to blame people who didn’t vote in 2024…
For Biden not holding trump accountable 2021-2024?
That’s…
That’s not how cause and effect works, that’s not even how linear time works…
People weren’t motivated to vote in 2024, because after holding their noses for Biden, he didn’t do what he said he would.
Imagine thinking Biden had any actual ability to do any of that… Take a fucking civics course my bro.
You don’t think Biden could direct the DOJ to investigate the last presidents corruption?
Why?
Why would you think that?
Biden could have ordered the DOJ to investigate a limited acope, and if the DOJ refused, he could have replaced the head of the DOJ.
Who do you think is in charge of the DOJ if not the president?
Like, you realize that right now, you’re arguing that Biden broke the law by saying they should investigate trump. He did say that, he just never followed thru.
Quick edit:
Like, the head of the DOJ is a political appointee who serves at the pleasure of the president…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General
How does the president not control the DOJ?
This learned helplessness is ridiculous
Jesus Christ grant others reading comprehension. No I’m not, and yes he did direct an investigation. And the Republicans in Congress and within the doj fucking stonewalled. This was all over the news the whole fuckin time man, did you memory hole it? Biden did everything that, by the book, he could do while maintaining norms and traditions and decorum. He could have violated the office like Trump to wield more authority, but how the fuck you think the Republican Congress and media would have taken that? They’d have impeached his ass and you’re not a serious person if you think otherwise. You do not seem to have a full grasp of how any of this works in spite of apparently watching it first hand, and you still buy Republican propaganda blaming Biden. Be better bro.
He did do that. And the Republicans in Congress and within in the doj fucking stonewalled. This was all over the news the whole fuckin time man, did you memory hole it?
Oh…
The Billionaires told their employees on mainstream news to say that it wasn’t Biden’s fault?
I do remember that… But it was bullshit.
Just like when they kept saying Biden was perfectly healthy.
The problem is:
You insist that billionaires would never lie to us.
Which is a wild take in 2025…
Edit:
That’s not even getting into how fast you went from:
Imagine thinking Biden had any actual ability to do any of that
To:
yes he did direct an investigation.
Which fucking is it?
You said he can’t do it, then said he did it…
The issue was the amount of illegal shit they did, that resulted in the various proceedings. The discovery for all the crimes went on too long, and as you’ve seen from the lawsuits that were thrown out… it’s not wise to start one without rock solid evidence and a fully built case.
On the other hand the moment SCOTUS ruled that any official act of POTUS is fully legal, regardless of technical legality, he should’ve had Trump shot. Period.
The issue was the amount of illegal shit they did, that resulted in the various proceedings. The discovery for all the crimes went on too long, and as you’ve seen from the lawsuits that were thrown out… it’s not wise to start one without rock solid evidence and a fully built case.
…
So pick one thing and focus on that…
For fucks sake this is basically life advice given to children:
Student:
I have too much homework, I’ll never accomplish it all!
Teacher/parent:
Start with one assignment, and then move on to the next. That way you’ll get some finished. Don’t try to do every assignment at the same time or you might not get any done.
But if you’re saying Biden and his admin we’re too stupid to know that, I actually disagree.
I think they were doing the classic neoliberal move where they say they’re “investigating” but then they just run down the clock and say “aww shucks, we ran out of time”.
Because that’s what he also did with: cannabis decriminalization, better healthcare, more social programs, justice reform, LGBTQ rights…
Basically, fucking everything.
But you’re saying, that you believe Biden and his people, were just genuinely too stupid to focus on specific crimes and they couldn’t build a case against trump for anything?
A criminal investigation is a bit more complex topic than homework. You can’t pick and choose the things, you need to conduct a thorough investigation uncovering every potentially relevant fact and building a case based on that. Miss evidence, miss a connection, and your case is thrown out during cross-examination. How do you think it sounds to a judge that oops, you didn’t do this and that and that, investigating connected crimes etc., because you “wanted a quick conviction”?
Trump’s crimes were incredibly inter-connected, and the court case wasn’t to convince voters but to convince a judge.
Voters are convinced by even simple rumours, you don’t even need an actual criminal investigation, just lie and spread the rumour that one is happening, and bam, you got a bunch of people now dead-set against whomever these made up investigations are happening of. That’s how MAGA operates, that’s how the whole Hunter Biden thing went on and frenzied half your country. Wild rumours until a fraction of what they were shouting materialised, and literally all they’ve got to show for it is his dick pics on the Senate and House floor… But the average MAGA was convinced and that was enough.
Do you think the reverse would be enough? Just dirty Trump until MAGA turns away? Frivolous lawsuits based on partial investigations? That would just further convince MAGA that it’s a baseless, political witch-hunt.
You can’t pick and choose the things,
That is definitely not true in America where:
Our riminal justice system is overwhelmingly a system of pleas. Statistics consistently show that about 95-98% of federal convictions and 94-95% of state convictions result from guilty pleas, often through plea bargains. The Supreme Court acknowledged this reality in Missouri v. Frye, stating that our system “is for the most part a system of pleas, not a system of trials.”
https://govfacts.org/explainer/plea-bargain-vs-trial-navigating-the-crossroads-of-justice/
People almost exclusively are having their crimes “picked and chosen”.
That’s the entire basis of modern justice system.
You pull over a speeder and find a joint, the cop can just let it go. The prosecutor could decide to drop it. Multiple people at every step “pick and choose” before and after charges are filed…
What are you on about? Biden has no personal authority to “hold Trump accountable”. He appoints the attorney general and that’s where Biden’s authority ends. Then it’s on the DOJ to investigate. You know, separation of powers.
I know it’s not interesting to look into how things actually work, but at this point of you being edgy you’re just spreading misinformation.
That’s not even touching on the precedent parts, which is not how the legal system works at all. Like at all.
We all chose not to do that. Biden’s idea was that it’s ultimately up to the people to decide the direction of the country.
Anything he does to keep a political opponent out of office is damaging. Relying on the American people to do it is only foolish with the benefit of hindsight.
So now there’s precedent to toss Trump’s Nazi pardons back in prison. Cool
So if you ever get pardoned, flee the country.
So let’s say they actually try to enforce this. How do they know which signatures are autopen and which aren’t? They (the GOP) will probably just say they all were, but I can’t imagine it holding up in court against any reasonable judge.
You’re presuming there would be a reasonable judge and not one already bought and paid for.
No, I’m not presuming that. That’s why I specifically started “reasonable judge”. It’s obvious an unreasonable judge wouldn’t care.
Man, these guys are such fucking losers
This is hanging chads all over again isn’t it?
I’m perfectly fine with this one. It gives America a second chance to undo all of Trump’s pardons.
more like another step in unravelling any and all of American government’s legitimacy
It wasn’t too long ago when the US gave telecommunication companies retroactive immunity for spying on Americans. There are already way too many options for presidential immunity, pardons and commutations that are used to protect criminals from prosecution.
The GOP is already a full kleptocratic organization with zero intent to govern for the good of Americans.
Should pardons really exist though?
Honestly? That’s a separate discussion. This is the Republicans and the president effectively openly telling us all they’re never leaving power again. Because you know they would not stand for a Democratic administration having that power.
They should yes. They’re for rescuing people caught in the system that shouldn’t be.
They are not supposed to be what they’re used for in the modern era .
I’d feel a whole lot better if there were a system tha would prevent autocrats from just bailing out their rich friends & acquaintances…
It cuts both ways. It gives authoritarians the ability to do corruption, and it gives actual stewards of the law the ability to undo huge amounts of damage done by authoritarians. The idea is that the voters are meant to pick which one they prefer. If the voters can’t make that decision, or the system collapses then the pardon power doesn’t really matter anyway.
Good.
The US really needs a fresh start, from scratch.
Let’s see who ends up running that. Government by the Walmarts, for the Amazons.
Oh, but at what costco!
So you genuinely believe they would give the office of the president this power if they ever thought anyone else would wield that power? This is a clear signal that Republicans will not cede power peacefully.
The problem is this will be selectively applied. Democrats won’t “stoop so low” as to void pardons, and Republicunts will keep voiding them as suits their purpose. Neither side of course will address any larger structural issue than that
But the Dems won’t use it because it isn’t proper and how it was done.
