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American bs product. boycot!
The box in question is tiny: about the size of a GameCube. Extremely portable, light, and quiet. Valve has a strong profit motive to ensure games can actually run on it without Windows, doing nearly all of the troubleshooting for you. Yeah you could install Linux on a system you built yourself. You can eat the responsibility of expensive mistakes you could possibly make in building it and setting it up. But if the steam machine doesn’t work ALREADY, straight out of the box, without the expectation for you to fuck with it, it’s valve’s problem. For grown ups who have a job and limited free time, not having to waste that time on unfucking shit may in fact be worth it.
Its a *gabecube*
Quite a bit of speculation in these comments considering we don’t even have a price yet
I would pay any price just so I have a pc with games only on it. I haven’t gamed in years cuz my pc is just too full of hobbies, video editing, photography, personal items, backups, movies, albums. Can’t game with all of that in my space.
A steam console where I can just lay in my chaise lounge and play some Terraria? Gosh yes
Meh. You can’t beat the economy of scale with boutique retail PC part prices. That said, you’re probably going to get the min quality for specified performance.
I can build a better PC for less money
Can you?
First of all, Valve has not even announced a price yet. Everything is still pure speculation.
Second, have you seen the price of GPU’s, RAM, and SSD’s these days? Consumers for gaming PC parts are competing for supply with industrial buyers now. AI is hoovering all the supply up with the backing from private equity. The GPU market never fully recovered from the cryptocurrency era either.
I’ve been wanting to build a new mid-range gaming PC for years now. I’ve kept an eye on prices. I spent ~$1k on a machine in 2019, with the GPU costing a mere $175. Nowadays a comparable tier of GPU starts at $600, and the cost fo a mid-tier machine is over $1,500, getting closer to $2,000 with the RAM and SSD prices.
Valve can get better bulk pricing on components. Their primary profit center is software sales, and it’s really hard to sell software when no one can afford hardware. So Valve is incentivized to design these machines that are resistant to being scalped or scrapped for specific components, and to sell them for relatively low margin in order to drive game sales. We already saw this with the Steam Deck- it was hardware that could play games without mining crypto.
I do think the RAM and maybe SSS supply could throw a wrench into Valve’s plans though. Just because if the prices go high enough, people could start buying steam machines to rip out the RAam modules and sell them separately. But we are nowhere near that level of RAM pricing yet.
People say the same about a Mac, and they are usually correct but a Mac is built to last and be energy efficient. Hardware/software integration is also tight.
You’d spend less building your own or buying a cheap windows machine but in terms of performance, energy efficiency, build quality etc you’ll struggle to get better value in the long run.
OK but who said that the RAM isnt firmly soldered?
Gamer’s Nexus has reported that it is upgradeable SO-DIMM modules, though they did not confirm whether it is 1 or 2 sticks.
Okay, thx for clarify.
I remember that guy on hacker news who said Dropbox would never take off because he could build something similar with rsync. He’s not wrong, people who looked for something rsync could solve continued just use rsync. Meaning, people who want to build a PC for less will continue to build a PC less. The Steam Box isn’t for people who want to build a pc for less, though.
from my wife - we sit in front of a computer all damn day. we don’t want to sit in front of a computer all damn night too. we want to sit down in front of our TV and play games together in the evening. we just want it to work. we’ve built PCs and we have no interest in cobbling something together and supporting it for it’s lifetime. don’t act like that doesn’t come with a huge cost of time.
100% This, I work in IT all day. The last thing I want to do with my personal time is build and support a home built machine attached to my TV that my kids or wife will use to watch Netflix or play a few games. Especially if I am out of town and something stops working.
That’s why I own a PlayStation and pay a premium for their games on an inferior platform compared to PC. It generally just works with out me having to fuck with it all the time. I’d get a Steam box for the same reason.
I have game consoles, but I don’t use them regularly. Every time I turn them on, they want an hour of updates and a password reset just to use the dvd player.
A PC just works.
I bet a Steam Machine would just work too, because Valve aren’t as incompetent as the competition.
To be fair, if you would use your PC as rarely as you seem to use your gaming console, it’s probably also want to take an hour to update…
I could still play games or watch DVDs while it updates
PCs do not just work. They require updates a lot more than your average game console especially if you’re cursed to use Windows.
I can use my PC’s DVD player while I wait for sudo pacman -Syu, or I can even not update it at all if I want. I can do the thing I wanted to do and then update it when I’m done.
…it doesn’t come with a huge cost of time. Literally no idea what the fuck you’re talking about. Where is the time cost?
You just buy a new PC every time you have a driver issue, huh?
Driver issue??
That would necessitate doing things other than playing video games on your pc
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You can literally just move the computer? I have a computer in my living room. In fact that is where it stays all day everyday.
But if you don’t want to physically move it. You can run a single fiber optic cable, or if you have Ethernet - connect a balun at the PC and at the TV…
An hdmi extender, routing a cable, and getting some wireless peripherals (which you’d need anyway) is a huge cost of time?
Unless you live in a mansion, I guess…
I like the steam box but idk
All this tells me is you don’t frequently mess with your computer enough to break it.
I want a steam box because my PC is always in some state of me fucking with it. I don’t want that to get in the way of my gaming.
I used to have my PC plugged in to my TV, steam box style, but it’s back on my desk now… with a long ass HDMI cable running to that TV so I get the best of both worlds. Steam box is definitely cool, I don’t understand the hate for it. Sometimes I think people are just whiners.
Yea that thing is rad. I’m thinking I’ll get it for my nephew someday if they release a new version when he’s old enough to play.
Either that or I torture him with Linux Mint and Lutris I haven’t decided yet.
??? What are you on about? Stop breaking your shit and then acting like the issue is the fact that it’s a PC and not the fact that you’re actively choosing to mess with it?
Like, what is breaking in the first place?
I LIKE breaking my shit. I don’t like missing my games. Steam machine is an easy answer.
Why would you not expect to be fucking with your steam box? Also I’m not even anti-steam box, I’m glad it’s your solution, but again: why?
Bro probably broke his first RAM tab holder because he thought only one of them opens
Baby steps
Lol yea okay I just opened up my DAD’S laptop yesterday to clean it. I went as far as taking apart the fan to clean it properly, and the quirky M.2 setup in his T470p as well, just to get everything out. I also just bought a “broken” webcam, and fixed it for my own use.
But I dON’t mESs WiTH mY coMPutER eNOuGh
I’m just…not a dummy
If your personal PC is always on working order, then I still claim you don’t do enough. Maybe you’re great. Be greater.
Nice ragebait tbh you got me
Covid, the wire company makes a wireless 4k HDMI extender, the EHW-200. There’s a 1080 one too, the EHW-100 for half the cost. Plug and play, no app. They’re pretty cool.
What is the latency on that?
I just used a $30 HDMI balun and a single patch cable to connect the Ethernet running from Living Room to PC. Just removed the router from the connection between the two and it works fantastic. No latency issues and Cat6 is more than capable.
I actually don’t know, our customers use them for presenting mostly. We usually use the HDMI over HDBaseT. I actually don’t know all the specs, I am in the Procurement side, they just send me lists to order. I just saw the wireless units and thought they were pretty slick.
EDIT looked it up 90-120ms a bit laggy, probably not good for gaming.
By the time it arrives you won’t even be able to buy the memory for whatever the Steam Machine ends up costing.
I’ll repeat what others likely mentioned before:
Valve specifically chose to build a mid range PC, so more people can afford it.
Also they priced it in a way where it’s still affordable while offering the convenience of not having to build it yourself. The majority of people never built a PC themselves, nor do they want to.
i think i must be their target audience because i’m excited as hell for the steam machine. i have no desire to build my own, i just want to play my steam games on my big tv. that’s it. they’re making that easy.
Not disagreeing with any of this, but it’s not like people who don’t build PC’s dont have plenty of options of prebuilt ones from either high end 3rd party stores as well as low end ones. To me it’s just another option to add to a long list which due to the company name will definitely sell more than the others right off the bat.
Options is the key word. Options means no “one” has a monopoly.
The key difference is that the Steam Machine can be controlled 100% for the controller with a OS built to be controlled by the controller, and seen on a TV.
Windows doesn’t do that. It fuckin sucks to see on a TV because the UI is so small, and the controller only works in-game.
I am most excited for the OS progress. I will be putting whatever on my living room pc as soon as it’s released. I can’t stand using a mouse and keyboard in the living room and having to scoot close to the TV
Maybe its the games I have played but my last pc was connected to my tv exclusively for 5 years and never saw that UI issue. I definitely had issues that sometimes needed addressing, but that wasnt one. I thought it worked good enough, but yeah the keyboard and mouse was always annoying. I used the Logitech all in one which was pretty small and mouse pad on the right side from the couch. For the most part I used it more for video playback though so I was in Kodi a lot and I would then use my phone as the remote control.
The games are rarely the issue. It’s the OS in between the games, switching between games on Steam Big Picture and then to Jellyfin or similar for media, aweb browser, and so on. You can do it with a wireless mouse or trackpad, but it’s a bit of a pain. SteamOS will presumably have a better UI for that.
Choose: Big, bulky, shining with full RGB spectrum monster (low-end)
Or small funny box that Just Works.
Lol, I also hate the RGB as well. I built mine a few years ago and it was annoying how badly it is just integrated into most parts now. Some had options where I could buy the same part without it, but some it was either buy it with it or get something else that was either lower end or higher end and not what I wanted at all. In the end it has a low glow and I just face that open window at a wall. Why can’t everything have a boring option like noctua fans.
To me the Steam Machine looks more like it’s supposed to be a console type deal. Like what the Steam Link was supposed to be.
Especially if you mainly use it with the Big Picture mode of Steam OS
But the Steam Box comes with Linux so it must better :)
Well, It’s a game box that doesn’t record everything you do, shove it into AI, and sell all your secrets to the highest bidder.
It’s basically a linux PC from a reputable vendor that comes with support.
And yeah, you could build your own cheaper.
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And yeah, you could build your own cheaper.
I call BS.
At what theoretical price point for a Steam Machine, can you match the or exceed the specs, for less cost?
Ok, now also try to do that, and match the Steam Machine’s power draw, and form factor.
… Go on, show me your build, with current US prices.
Unless I somehow missed an actual price announcement for the Steam Machine, I wanna see how cheap you can get an actually comparable build done for.
And yeah, you could build your own cheaper.
Notably, though, this is the case with any pre-built PC; the Steam Box isn’t an exception. We don’t know the final price or specs yet but presumably it’s no worse value than buying something from e.g. Dell. Probably better value purely based on it coming with Linux and without the bloatware.
And also cheaper because steam expects to make additional money on each user in the future via steam purchases, so they can keep the margin smaller in the hardware price
Steam has explicitly said they are not subsidizing the steam machine as other console makers do
iirc they said they weren’t selling at a loss, but that’s not the same thing as selling at a low margin. PC manufacturers have to make essentially 100% of their profit from the initial sale of the device, but valve can make a smaller profit from the sale of each device because they know each device will lead to additional profit through game purchases
I thought pc makers made side profits with all the bloatware they install. And possibly some weird deals with M$ too.
They don’t know that, if they sell cheap enough it might be worth it for a random office somewhere to order a hundred and use them as work computers with no intention to ever buy a game in them. Also they aren’t going to be locked, nothing prevents you from getting one and run games purchased in every market under the sun that isn’t steam (and/or pirated games).
I don’t think they have any certainty that they’ll even make decent money on them. I am hopeful that this will be good for everyone but can’t exactly see how at the moment.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/valve-finally-confirms-leaked-steam-machine-price-rumors/
Well, it’s true we don’t have actual numbers yet, we do have some pretty solid info on the hardware. And we have some statements from Valve themselves that it’s not going to be console-priced, even though the hardware is clearly console specced.
Don’t get me wrong. I really really want it to work out well. I would love to have well, supported Linux workstations in people’s hands.
But I think we’re going to find its price is going to shove it into a niche audience.
This article says absolutely nothing except here say from a YouTuber?
They didn’t confirm anything?
With the prices of RAM…
Valve would have secured a pipeline prior to announcing the news at least for the first however many thousand/million/whatever units
that comes with support
biggest point.
When you build your own linux pc, you will always have a big risk of some unexpected problems. Lowering the bar of technical expertise to run linux is the main selling point here IMO.
Yeah, I think the missing point is the average Lemmy user is not the target market. This is Steam’s attempt to grab market share from the other consoles. People with gaming PCs are probably already using steam. People with Xbox or PS are probably not. Steam needs to provide an out of the box ready product to let them existing console players play steam.
And it will be a development target, meaning devs will put in some effort to get their games working nicely on it.
NGL, I kinda want one as a desktop. I have better gaming systems, but having a little borg cube on my desk with an ok amount of horsepower pushing two monitors would be pretty neat. I’d either give it a Tardis siege mode skin or a borg cube skin
This is me. I used to be a PC tinkerer back in the day. But now, ain’t nobody got time for that.
Not just the highest bidder. All bidders.
It is so bizarre that even when something like this is announced, a unique phenomenon in gaming and modern pc history, which is sure to make a lot of pc linux converts because of its accessibility, the pc linux masterrace is still being gatekeeping about it.
I’ll just repost the same comment I wrote the first time someone posted this meme:
It’s a small form factor PC, pre-installed with Linux and steam. Period.
Can you build something more powerful cheaper? Probably
Can you build something more powerful with the same form factor for cheaper? Maybe, probably not… We don’t know.
All of those are beside the point.
They sell millions of desktop PCs pre-installed with windows, they often make terrible hardware choices, and don’t even have a small form factor, if they do they have the computing power of a laptop. All of this at an unreasonable prices. At the very least the steam machine will be better value than those. Anyone who would consider one of those PCs, might consider a steam machine instead.
I saw someone complain that there weren’t enough customisation possibilities with the Steam Machine. As if they couldn’t just build it however they want right now.
It’s a linux gaming PC where you do not have to worry about hardware compatibility.
But can you mod games like on PC?
It is a PC, so yes, it can mod games.
Yes.
Windows has MO2?
Linux has Limo.
Very, very comparable mod managers.
If you mean… actually develop your own mods?
Also yes, but personally I’d recommend swapping out SteamOS for Bazzite.
Many mods work. I have tried some GTA SA mods, and have seen people using Minecraft mods.
Need for Speed mods work too. There even was a fix somewhere for Frosty Mod Manager to make it work properly under Linux, for modding modern NFS titles.
So is it ‘never obsolete’ like the EMachines were?
That’s exactly what I believe about it. If Valve sold it without their monopolized software on it, I would be interested.
… Their… monopolized… operating system?
Which is completely open source, and thus free to everyone… and also forkable, modifiable?
… Genuienly, what are you talking about?
They allow you to install whatever you like on their hardware. This is the same case with the steam deck - the bootloader is accessible with a button combination.
So if you don’t like steamOS, you can just install another OS from a USB device before the first login screen.
Er, why would you expect the software on this to be any more restricted than the Deck’s? Have you seen some information to that effect?
No, I just don’t trust Valve. They poached the better Cassali off Doomworld, and they’ve monopolized gaming without physical media.
TBH, if Tim, Romero, or Carmack relaunched the Big Blue Disk, I would get in, in a heartbeat.
Well, OK, let me ask this a different way then…
How could they possibly distribute a device that was end-user ready with any less control?
They went out of their way to make the Deck user-repairable and partnered with iFixIt to make replacement parts and documentation easily available. They built in a simple way to switch to the Arch desktop so the user could easily access non-Steam applications or take control of the OS if desired. I don’t see how the device could be more open to end-user control and still ready-to-use out of the box.
Valve does not have a monopoly by any definition of the word, especially the legal definition. They don’t have a majority of the business because they buy out the competition or use their position to drop prices to a level that others can’t compete with. They have a majority of the market because they provide a better service than the competition and have been doing it long enough to have developed a cultural gravity in the same way that Xbox, PlayStation, and Facebook and Twitter have.
