about 70 models currently on US roads sporting electric handles
So you can be mad at Tesla for making this popular but it’s clearly not a Tesla specific problem anymore.
In that case, it’s past time to get Tesla shutdown and Elon Musk arrested for producing this shit.
Recently there was a similar incident in China involving a Xiaomi car. This led to an incoming legislation that will require all cars to have mechanical handles in case of emergency.
Tesla alone had many such cases and there are no plans whatsoever to do anything about it.
Imagine losing to China in safety regulations.
Why not? China is developing while the US is sitting around with their thumb up their ass.
There are tons of valid criticisms of China but they seem to have their shit firmly together in many areas.
They’re developing while we are unveloping.
When I was young and naïve in my 50s, I thought US cars had safety requirements, and the era of rolling death traps had been beaten back by Ralph Nader. Must’ve been my mistake. Is there nobody in the government looking at safety issues like un-openable doors?
Shut it libtard, “safety” is a made-up democrat hoax. Don’t wear your seatbelt, die like a real man.
I feel it is probably necessary to add /s
My grandfather 40 years ago rolled his Bronco II into a ditch while drinking and driving. I honestly believe he’d lived if he wore his seat belt. The accident ejected him and broke his neck…ending his life.
Sorry to hear that friend… safety is no joke.
Is there nobody in the government looking at safety issues like un-openable doors?
Really? Are you actually surprised? The man who decided to put electric un-openable doors onto is the same man who took a chainsaw to the federal regulatory budget and got rid of any agency that had the the authority to rule on such an issue.
To repeat:
Is there nobody in the government looking at safety issues like un-openable doors?
Nope, Elon Musk fired the people who were responsible for making his cars safe because Elon thought their recommendations cost too much and your safety is a sacrifice Elon Musk is willing to make if it makes Tesla stock value increase.
Of course there are in around 95% of the rest of the world.
There is regulation. Tesla is just the first company to make a separate emergency handle. Other companies managed to figure out how to do it with one handle. Even with frameless doors.
Corvettes, going back to at least the C6 generation (2005ish) have electronic handles, but they have mechanical emergency pulls on the floor next to the door sill. Yes, messing with them will set off the car alarm if the doors are locked. Ask me how I know.
I have no idea why anyone where it freezes would want mechanical handles, especially ones that electronically self-present. I’ve had to yeet my frozen shit door open on more than occasion.
Pouring a kettle of boiling water on the door handle every morning
Regulation is bad. Anything that restricts multimillion donor billionaires’ wise ways of doing business is literally communism. Or was it Fascism.
communism. Or was it Fascism.
depends on which party is in charge and who you ask about it.
For real. Mechanical handle hidden under the rubber cupholder is wild. As a European I’m amazed that it’s legal.
I hate that others have jumped on the door handle trends. It’s like apple being “brave enough” to remove the headphone port. My car at least has the electric switch and mechanical backup on the same handle. I don’t love it, but you can’t get trapped inside.
I don’t see how prospective car buyers can see shit like that and not see it as indicative of much larger design issues lurking under the hood.
Like, how do you see that and not immediately question the safety concerns of adding additional steps to escape the vehicle if there is an accident and the electric door loses power? How do you from there not question what other poor design decisions may have been made if something so obvious got through? Do people just not think about the things they’re spending 10s of thousands of dollars on?
I think that most people just don’t think about such details. Personally I wouldn’t. I’d think about the ergonomics of the unlock mechanism when it works as intended, which sucks, by the way.
But I wouldn’t really think about safety. It’s not my job. I would assume the industrial designer did their job, and that the regulator did theirs.
A lot of prospective car buyers like the thing based on the few details they interact with during a test drive and don’t think any further ahead, just like with everything else in their lives.
Someone else posted a photo. It appears to be an obvious lever, not hidden under the cupholder.
Front passenger seat only.
Both front seats, though apparently back is under the door pocket.
The Euro NCAP crash test scoring was just revised so that cars that don’t have manual controls for the most important functionality cannot get 5 star ratings anymore.
I don’t understand electronic parking brakes.
Having a big “Please Don’t Move Unless Released” lever is very important to me, and I mean this earnestly.
There is a manual override in Teslas too. It’s just so well hidden that you’re not going to find in an emergency.
Manual overrides won’t count.
It turns out people don’t have time to read manuals and find hidden options in emergencies.
I feel like when operating a lethal hunk of metal at such speeds, perhaps it should be a requirement to RTFM. For several reasons.
Up until about 15 years ago any person who knew how to drive any random car would have been able to operate about 99% of all cars in existence safely without ever looking at a fucking manual.
Should be marked so it’s obvious, but I remember a post about a guy who astonished people by knowing so much. His method? Reading the manual.
You shouldn’t have to read the manual to not fucking die in a car fire. This isn’t like some secret mode to let you change what noise the horn makes. This has literally killed people.
I agree, but seeing pictures of the lever, how do people not look around their car and see what levers and buttons do what?
Anyway my story about the manual was just meant as a story about the manual.
The rear doors in Teslas don’t have any lever to manually release the door. You actually have to take off a piece of trim or the side pocket liner to find a wireloop that you have to pull.
The rear passengers in the tesla are rarely the owner of the tesla, which means that they also likely doesn’t know how to access the manual release… Why this hasn’t caused a worldwide recall is a mystery to me.
And if you sit in the rear of a Model X good luck opening the doors even with a manual release
One would think the crash tests would automatically produce results that would disqualify vehicles from a 5-star rating. Why would you need an amendment to the rules if crashes were disabling door locks and rendering doors inoperable? That seems like an automatic strike against safety.
Because the door handles are not always disabled in a crash. There’s technically a system in place to extend the handles if a crash is detected, which works the majority of the time. The issue is that, clearly, this system is not reliable enough (because, ya know, if the control system gets wrecked in a crash, it cant extend the handles). But my guess is that it still works enough in crash tests to not automatically disqualify it from 5-stars.
“It’s terrifying,” said Kevin Clouse, a Georgia resident who was trapped in his Model 3 following a 2023 crash and had to kick out a window to escape. He recently filed a complaintwith US regulators and has sought to raise awareness of door-related entrapment on social media. “You’re in a box that’s on fire and you can’t get out.”
What a horrifying way to go.
trapped in his Model 3
If it was his model 3 then that implies he was driving. Did he try the mechanical door release and it didn’t work or did he not know about it because Tesla stupidly made it invisible?
Assuming the latter. Apparently they’re under the cupholders?
They’re more/less in the place you would expect them to be but they’re blended in with the rest of the door. You have to pull up on the thing in front of the window button.
I’m sorry… They actually have handles all this time? So WTF?
Yes, and they are so conspicuous, about 90% of passengers use them instead of the button until briefed otherwise.
Only in the front, unfortunately. Somehow there are way too many Tesla owners who don’t know about them. The back seat is another story. There IS a mechanical release under the rubber liner in the door pocket. You have to pull the liner out and pull on a steel cable to open it. Some people have cut holed in the liner and added little handles to get around this put it’s still a huge oversight by Tesla IMO.
Imagine trying to do that shit while on fire, and the car is upsidedown and full of smoke…
Imagine trying to do that in any car with the child lock on - something that has been in cars for decades.
Exactly. Not sure how they got away with that
That’s the actual lever? In that case that’s uh actually pretty obvious.
In that case that’s uh actually pretty obvious.
Really? Because I have 15 people who burned to death because it isn’t.
That’s not where people look for door handles. It’s not marked. It doesn’t stand out in any way. It’s obvious only if you already know it’s there. Otherwise it’s a death trap.
I agree and yet someone downvoted many of my comments in this thread.
I only see 1 of your comments with a downvote.
You can find out who up/downvoted you at https://lemvotes.org/
I thought so too. Slightly less obvious for the driver side. See my other comment about the back seat though.
Same thing in front of the window buttons? Still obvious enough.
On that side it isn’t obvious at all. It blend in with the window buttons and looks like it is just a plastic panel. A design flourish or convenience, not a functional lever.
Yeah… Some people really are not observant and car manufacturers need to cater to those people as well.
Can someone explain what was wrong with normal door handles that they would do this?
Is it like some Steve Jobs-esque obsession with a car not being a car or something?
My understanding is that it’s related to the frameless glass on the doors, it needs to roll the windows down a smidgen to clear the water seal on the door frame, so you press the button which tells the computer to roll the window down a couple of mm then actuate the door.
Every coupe has had this feature for 40 years, before they had electric windows, even. You just dip the window as the door latch actuates, whether the window is electrically or mechanically hooked to the door handle.
I have one of those cars in my garage with a fully mechanical door handle, with a mechanical lock for the key and everything.
They think the extra .01 “mpg” gained from smooth doors is worth the risk. I think most people would agree that it’s not.
It’s actually dumber. I’m pretty sure this just got removed because mechanical door handles don’t look or sound as cool as electronic door handles.
One must remember that Elon Musk is perpetually trapped at 11 years old.
It’s not necessary to have electric door handles for that. Aircraft have been using purely mechanical handles where one side is pushed to make the other stand out enough to pull for decades. Several flush door handle designs requiring no electronics have appeared on cars as well.
Nah, then make them pop out on pressing, you don’t need an electric actuator
As another commenter pointed out it does have a noticeable impact on mpg, however you can still do flush mounted handles that are fully manual. Basically every other car manufacturer does manual locks except for Tesla and a couple small (less than 10,000 units annually) companies. The thing is electric locks are cheaper, and when you don’t care about safety, you go for the cheapest option.
The real issue is that they can’t be opened from the inside. Unless you locate the mechanical latch, which involves peeling off the rubber lining of the cupholder.
Everyone exaggerates. It’s not that hidden. See the pic in this thread.
The ghost of Steve Jobs: “blow them shii smoove off”
I have similar style of handles on my car that the model 3, S, and Y have. The thing is the manufacturer made the handle manual while still being flush with the body, they even added a physical key hole so I can have access to the interior if the battery is dead, while still being flush with the body. It’s not hard to do manual, it’s safer, it just costs slightly more, and as we’ve seen in capitalism, lives are cheap. So what if it kills someone, you saved $5.
Is there some evidence that the electric handles are cheaper? You still need all of the same mechanical latches and linkages, but now add electric actuators and wiring. Intuitively it doesn’t seem like it would be cheaper to me.
Electric door handles don’t need all the linkages, it’s literally a solenoid that’s attached directly to the latch and that solenoid is both the door latch and the door lock. There’s only 2 moving parts, the solenoid and the latch itself. The model 3, S, X and Y have an additional moving part that is the actual handle that triggers the solenoid, but the cybertruck doesn’t even have that.
My manual door handle has the outside handle, the lock, the inside handle, the electronic lock, the linkages between the lock and the outside handle, the linkages between the lock and the inside handle, the linkages between the lock and the latch, then the latch. There’s way more machining and assembly involved in a manual lock and door handle than an electronic lock, and that machining has to be way more precise.
That’s valid. I guess that by “so the mechanical linkages” etc. I was thinking of what actually holds the door shut securely in the vehicle frame. You still need a mechanical override for the solenoid actuator, but I can see that being cheaper overall after reading your description.
it just costs slightly more
There you have it.
In a normal car company, the CEO would be fired.
No, because nothing matters except stock price.
Musk’s companies aren’t evaluated based on their ability to sell products/services, they’re valued on hype.
If he left any of his companies they would suffer drastic stock crashes which would likely kill the company.
Oddly enough Silicon Valley does a really good job of explaining how wonky the math gets.
“Normal” companies try to raise stock by making a product, these tech companies are basically exploiting glitch’s in the stock market. It’s why everyone else is losing.
There are layers to this.
No exterior door handles is a massive danger in the event of a crash that incapacitates those inside. No interoir door handles is a massive danger to those inside in the event of a crash that takes out the electrical system.
That said. Plenty of crashes will “disable” the doors just from the type of impact and so forth. And those tend to be the really bad ones.
Which is why EVERYONE should have, preferably a pair, of those car window breakers. Keep one handy to the driver and one either in the box between the driver and passenger or somewhere very visible in the back seat area.
In the event of a really bad crash? That is how you cut your seatbelt if it is jammed or you are otherwise unable to easily access it. And that is how you smash the glass to get out. And if you pull up to the side of an accident? That is how you get the injured driver out (keeping in mind all safety related concerns with moving someone who might have a spinal injury).
Just… also be aware that it has become increasingly popular (and not just among swasticars) to laminate many of the occupant windows. This DOES prevent shards of glass from flying into your face in the event a pickup truck tried to run you over. This ALSO makes escape a LOT harder. It is good to actually read your manual (or at least the labels on the windows) to know which ones you can escape from in the event of a crash.
But yeah., There is no fucking reason to remove mechanical door handles. But it is not THAT much of a danger in the event of a crash. Whereas it IS very much a deeply annoying hazard in the event of accidentally starting a firmware update with the door closed…
15 deaths directly as a result of doors failing to unlock, not because the door was smashed but because of electronic failure, is not THAT much of a danger?
Some of these incidents aren’t even crashes. It’s just battery malfunction, causing a fire and trapping the passengers.
And for nothing. Teslas do have a mechanical emergency release latch. It’s just hidden.
People vastly underestimate the importance of having a window breaking tool. Many people who die when they go into a lake could very much be alive if they had just unbuckled, smashed, and swam/floated away. One of the best Mythbusters episodes was about specifically this. Opening a door when you are underwater but there is still air in the cabin is REALLY REALLY hard and the vast majority of people do not have the training/calm to take a last gasp of air, wait for pressure to equalize, and get going.
Same with burning vehicles. People very much underestimate how rapidly it is just not possible for all but the most adrenaline filled of mothers to get into that car to pull out someone who is unconscious or panicking because they can’t get their seatbelt off.
People who can’t get out of a burning vehicle because the electrical system has failed catastrophically but there is no meaningful damage to the doors is not nothing. But… 15 people IS nothing. Especially when you realize they might fall under a different category as well.
As per https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/research/nfpa-research/fire-statistical-reports/vehicle-fires the NFPA estimated an annual of 215k vehicle fires in the US during the 2018-2022 timeframe with 643 deaths per year (I think. Kinda ambiguous). Assuming those deaths were within a single calendar year (too lazy to find an archive link or see if reader mode works), that is 2%. If it is spread out, that is even less.
The swasticar doors are fundamentally stupid and dangerous and have no reason to exist. But in terms of ways to prevent loss of life? They are REALLY low on the totem pole.
Whereas normalizing both drivers and good samaritans having tools to actually get into a car goes a long way. Because maybe that fire is because of the battery and the entire car is intact otherwise. More often you rae dealing with a jammed door because they got t-boned or rolled in a bad way. And the answer in both cases is to smashy-smashy.
A good way to think of it (that will remind us this is still essentially reddit and people hate metaphors) is like if Toyota decided every single car needed a dorsal fin… made out of sharpened steel. Yes, someone would inevitably get killed by it and that would lead to statistics. But it would have no meaningful impact on the lethality of a vehicle because so much else about cars is already so insanely dangerous.
But also… why the fuck would you duct tape a sword to a car? Don’t fucking do that.
Alright, you’ve convinced me that a window breaking tool in the glove box might not be the worst idea. Got any recommendations for good ones or is this just a generic item?
Check wirecutter or even amazon. Tempered glass is actually ridiculously easy to break even with just a spark plug in your hand, so anything with a hammer shape and the right tip is gonna do it. Just make sure there is also a seatbelt cutter on the tool.
That said, it is probably worth spending some more money to get the spring loaded type. It doesn’t take THAT much effort to smash a tempered glass window, but it is a lot easier to just push a device against it instead.
110 people died in a car crash today in the USA alone.
And over 36,000 vehicles crash into buildings every year in the US (that’s roughly 100 per day!)
Yikes! I better buy a bigger vehicle so that if I’m in a crash, I won’t be the one getting crushed! /s
I passionately hate the door handles on Teslas they are too perfect of a symbol of useless empty technological development that Tesla embodies. I can’t swallow the firehose of poetic synchronicity it is too intense for me to be in close proximity to, my bitter sarcasm starts going haywire like a geiger counter near radioactive waste. Tesla door handles are affront to basic engineering principles and it terrifies me that the same guy who demanded them is allowed to own a company that sends humans to space.
I’ve encountered electronic door poppers on a few rental cars and I’ve always disliked them. I see no advantage at all, and several more things to go wrong.
Yeah, like I’ve seen mechanical door handles break but it’s always been on really old vehicles (except one that was a POS chevy aveo someone I knew had). Electronic shit just introduces problems and doesn’t add anything.
I’ve broken and repaired a couple. They’re easy to diagnose, and the parts are cheap. Perhaps more importantly for safety, their failure modes are not triggered by crashing.
