Let’s take a moment to realize that 95% of you hadn’t heard of cafe mom as an outlet until just now. And that the article’s headline is misleading/tabloidy at best. And while the rest seems well researched, it’s clearly misleading a bit. If you start beating a kid on the bus and ask others to join in, it’s not a surprise that you get suspended. Yes, she’s also the victim of terrible bullying and felt let down by the faculty (who - understandably - may need more than hearsay before they start taking action). You can still not beat people up. Nobody doesn’t understand that she did it. And indeed even the police looks at all of this as mitigating circumstances. And she’s back in school and on probation and that’s hopefully what they do with all kids who start fistfights. The buried headline is that the other kid is under police investigation, which has the potential not only to get him suspended after all but will have even more serious consequences. From what I read here, the system works as well as it can but the story is written to cause outrage.
I understand that victims of bullying like this or sexual assault in general face an uphill battle they never wanted to fight. And with the details in this story I can totally understand why the girl snapped. And I wish her nothing but the best and appropriate punishment for the kids who circulated the images. And still, you can’t resort to violence and expect not to be punished for it. We are not talking about self defense here.
Let’s think about that more. What if she didn’t do anything violent. Then the school buries it all… What then? Then you risk her family finding out, right? Can you imagine what an angry violent parent might do? … Shit, the boy is lucky she attacked him. So is the school.
And still, you can’t resort to violence and expect not to be punished for it. We are not talking about self defense here.
We actually are talking about self defence here. The thirteen year old girl is the victim of a sex crime. A sex crime, I should note, that the authorities she duly reported it to treated lackadaisically doing minimal “investigation” and then nothing.
When you feelare abandoned by your supposed protectors, and when you see the attacks happening again right in front of you, as well as attacks on your friends, you’re going to take your defence in your own hands. Anybody who thinks this is wrong, but handwaves away everything that happened beforehand, is an idiot.
What happened to her is extremely terrible and people just get was too emotional and turn off their brains so that they can let the anger make them feel just
Sorry, if a child goes to the school and makes the allegations she did and the school’s response is “I don’t believe you” and then after a second time of reporting it to the school the response is “I can’t find the images on Facebook, I don’t believe you” and “no you can’t contact your parents” it’s frankly inevitable that this would escalate.
Yes it is, but that’s not the point the poster was making.
I myself am a school bus driver and I can tell you that if anyone started beating a kid like that, they’re getting suspended. It doesn’t even matter why. If it’s everyone enough the other kid could be suspended too if they did something awful to start the fight, but that’s just not something you can do.
you can’t resort to violence and expect not to be punished for it.
No one is saying that. But you should stop looking for a perfect victim and look at how many adults failed her. The actual issue is she already gone to guidance counselor, principals and school sheriff looking for help but nothing happened. Even at her young age, she is learning that women are not believed while being sexually harassed. She already attempted to deal with the problem “the right way”.
The girls begged for help, first from a school guidance counselor and then from a sheriff’s deputy assigned to their school. But the images were shared on Snapchat, an app that deletes messages seconds after they’re viewed, and the adults couldn’t find them. The principal had doubts they even existed.
With the mocking unrelenting, the girl texted her sister, “It’s not getting handled.” As the school day wound down, the principal was skeptical. At the disciplinary hearing, the girl’s attorney asked why the sheriff’s deputy didn’t check the phone of the boy the girls were accusing and why he was allowed on the same bus as the girl. “Kids lie a lot,” responded Coriell, the principal. “They lie about all kinds of things. They blow lots of things out of proportion on a daily basis. In 17 years, they do it all the time. So to my knowledge, at 2 o’clock when I checked again, there were no pictures.”
It’s easy to armchair moralize that this child acted inappropriately. But I think the best quote of the article is…
“When we ignore the digital harm, the only moment that becomes visible is when the victim finally breaks,”
Too add on here, the pricipals defense for doing nothing about what the girl and her friends reported worked out to “ive been doing this for a long time, and kids lie a lot.”
Thats it. As usual, a victim of sexual harrasement gets told that since they dont have irrefutable proof, the “system” wont do anything. They didnt even act to seperate the two students from riding the same bus for 1 day.
I mentioned that I do understand why she did what she did. You add more information to this story that only increase understanding as far as I’m concerned.
Let me turn this into an extreme example for comparison’s sake. If a parent shot their child’s rapist and murderer, we all get it. Nobody will say “I have no idea why they would do such a thing.” A lot of us outsiders would look at that case and even be glad about this outcome. And at the same time, the mother or father would end up in prison. Because you cannot take the law in your own hands and expect not to be punished for that. There will be mitigating circumstances, they won’t go in for life. The punishment might just be exactly the time they spent in custody before their trial. But there will be punishment because we have rules about that. (Obviously, this example is not the same as this case of bullying. I’m only using it to compare consequences.)
Was this self defense? She was just defending her digital privacy? I’m not a lawyer. As a layman, I’m going to say this does not meet the legal criteria. Morally? Absolutely.
We can meter out appropriate punishment to everybody else here: the school that maybe responded badly. The parents of the dipshits who got their hands on an undress app. The fact that there are undress apps available to middle schoolers or anybody really. Etc. But we also have the benefit of hindsight.
You and I get why she threw punches. We might even go as far as cheering her on, in our heads, had we somehow been there. Go get those bastards, black eyes for all of them. My point was merely that if you resorted to violence like that you cannot expect not to be punished for it. Like in my extreme example, there are mitigating circumstances. Plenty of them. All should be considered. But there will be something on the record. In this case the suspension/probation, which I hoped is the punishment for every fight.
She got suspended and he didn’t (yet, as we find out halfway through). The headline of the linked article in the post implied that this was the outrageous part. My criticism was aimed first and foremost at the writer/editor of that article.
Was this self defense? She was just defending her digital privacy? I’m not a lawyer. As a layman, I’m going to say this does not meet the legal criteria. Morally? Absolutely.
Why do you say that?
She was being harmed and so she defended herself, and the harm stopped. Looks like self-defense to me.
In my view, self defense is a legal defense when somebody used violence to defend themselves against an immediate threat of physical harm. I don’t see how, legally, you could expand the parameters to fit this case. But I’m also not a lawyer.
The argument it seems to me you could be building here is that the victim of despicable bullying, ignored and misunderstood by all the authorities, lashed out out of desperation. And that in itself is an act of self defense. I think that’s a moral way to look at it, but not a legal one. The latter will look at this exactly as mitigating circumstances.
What is required is that there is a reasonable belief that they are in imminent physical danger. There are other factors, like attempting to deescalate and such, but she actually did that when she begged her school for help.
And being sexually harassed is reasonable reason to believe that they are in danger of sexual assault, or worse.
That’s why, when the police got involved, the boy was arrested and now faces 10 charges. She has not been arrested and is not facing charges. Legally, she seems to be in the clear.
You clearly have a different take on the situation. A bunch of dipshits showing deepfakes around on a bus, ostensibly with other people around who are not party to this dispute and a grownup in the driver’s seat, does not convince me that even your interpretation applies here. But neither one of us was present, we are both arm chairing this, we are just sitting in different arm chairs. Let’s leave it at that.
I’m not going to leave it. You’re wrong and you need to know it.
It wasn’t just one instance on the bus. These AI nudes were being traded around for a while and it wasn’t just happening to this one girl either. There were multiple victims that already been going to the school and the police for help. This was, essentially, a child pornography ring.
In the aftermath we see that the police also interpret the situation the way I do, which is why they arrested the boy while the girl who beat him up was not arrested. Not to say that the police should be totally trusted in legal matters, obviously, it’s up to the court to determine the facts from here. I don’t think the court is going to be sympathetic to this little creep.
In light of the fact that she and the other girls went to the authorities, what the fuck else were they supposed to do? Because it looks like beating this little creep up was actually the correct decision, because it got the legal ball rolling.
A small point of order: she didn’t “beat him up”. She threw a couple of punches. There’s no reports he was in any way seriously harmed which what “beat up” as a term suggests to me.
I read the actual article when it was posted on social media weeks ago right after it happened.
I want you to understand something. Revenge porn is a crime and a horribly traumatizing experience. She didn’t beat the kid up. She hit him. He didn’t end up in hospital.
The school literally is at fault because they didn’t actually do their due diligence to find out what happened and make even the most miniscule attempt to prevent the circulation of such photos. They expected a child or group of children to admit to circulating pornographic materials. If the school bus has video/photo evidence that this student had or circulated those materials he should be facing expulsion.
What we have to look at is whether or not this was self defense. I’d argue that the victim was trying to defend her right to privacy and to not have pornography materials of her spread around the school. This was defense of her mental health when the system failed.
I’d argue that while I don’t condone fighting this is exactly the situation that leads to it and the school administration let it happen. Why did they allow these kids to get on the same bus? Why was she refused permission to call home? Why didn’t they have her parent or guardian come pick her up?
There were multiple points where the school could have done something to mitigate the circumstances around this assault. They didn’t. They failed. And then they punished her and did nothing to fix the situation where a real and serious criminal act involving CP circulation was happening.
That’s bullshit.
Edit: You know what I think is even more bullshit? The situation probably wouldn’t have gotten a resolution at all if she hadn’t “snapped” . There’s thousands of kids getting bullied everyday who don’t snap and the only time their situation changes is when they are perceived to have done something wrong due to continued abuse being heaped upon them that the adults do nothing about. That’s not okay.
If this was my daughter i’d have thrown her a party after beating those little shits. Violence is the answer if people in authority are not addressing the situation. It always has been the answer since most of history.
The headline is unequivocally false. She was suspended for attacking her bully. The AI nudes had nothing to do with the school’s decision to suspend her.
Let’s take a moment to realize that 95% of you hadn’t heard of cafe mom as an outlet until just now. And that the article’s headline is misleading/tabloidy at best. And while the rest seems well researched, it’s clearly misleading a bit. If you start beating a kid on the bus and ask others to join in, it’s not a surprise that you get suspended. Yes, she’s also the victim of terrible bullying and felt let down by the faculty (who - understandably - may need more than hearsay before they start taking action). You can still not beat people up. Nobody doesn’t understand that she did it. And indeed even the police looks at all of this as mitigating circumstances. And she’s back in school and on probation and that’s hopefully what they do with all kids who start fistfights. The buried headline is that the other kid is under police investigation, which has the potential not only to get him suspended after all but will have even more serious consequences. From what I read here, the system works as well as it can but the story is written to cause outrage.
I understand that victims of bullying like this or sexual assault in general face an uphill battle they never wanted to fight. And with the details in this story I can totally understand why the girl snapped. And I wish her nothing but the best and appropriate punishment for the kids who circulated the images. And still, you can’t resort to violence and expect not to be punished for it. We are not talking about self defense here.
Let’s think about that more. What if she didn’t do anything violent. Then the school buries it all… What then? Then you risk her family finding out, right? Can you imagine what an angry violent parent might do? … Shit, the boy is lucky she attacked him. So is the school.
We actually are talking about self defence here. The thirteen year old girl is the victim of a sex crime. A sex crime, I should note, that the authorities she duly reported it to treated lackadaisically doing minimal “investigation” and then nothing.
When you
feelare abandoned by your supposed protectors, and when you see the attacks happening again right in front of you, as well as attacks on your friends, you’re going to take your defence in your own hands. Anybody who thinks this is wrong, but handwaves away everything that happened beforehand, is an idiot.i don’t understand the need to pretend that she did anything wrong
What happened to her is extremely terrible and people just get was too emotional and turn off their brains so that they can let the anger make them feel just
what
Sorry, if a child goes to the school and makes the allegations she did and the school’s response is “I don’t believe you” and then after a second time of reporting it to the school the response is “I can’t find the images on Facebook, I don’t believe you” and “no you can’t contact your parents” it’s frankly inevitable that this would escalate.
Yes it is, but that’s not the point the poster was making.
I myself am a school bus driver and I can tell you that if anyone started beating a kid like that, they’re getting suspended. It doesn’t even matter why. If it’s everyone enough the other kid could be suspended too if they did something awful to start the fight, but that’s just not something you can do.
Cafemom linked to the AP article they shortened.
No one is saying that. But you should stop looking for a perfect victim and look at how many adults failed her. The actual issue is she already gone to guidance counselor, principals and school sheriff looking for help but nothing happened. Even at her young age, she is learning that women are not believed while being sexually harassed. She already attempted to deal with the problem “the right way”.
It’s easy to armchair moralize that this child acted inappropriately. But I think the best quote of the article is…
Too add on here, the pricipals defense for doing nothing about what the girl and her friends reported worked out to “ive been doing this for a long time, and kids lie a lot.”
Thats it. As usual, a victim of sexual harrasement gets told that since they dont have irrefutable proof, the “system” wont do anything. They didnt even act to seperate the two students from riding the same bus for 1 day.
Its no wonder the girl took action.
I mentioned that I do understand why she did what she did. You add more information to this story that only increase understanding as far as I’m concerned.
Let me turn this into an extreme example for comparison’s sake. If a parent shot their child’s rapist and murderer, we all get it. Nobody will say “I have no idea why they would do such a thing.” A lot of us outsiders would look at that case and even be glad about this outcome. And at the same time, the mother or father would end up in prison. Because you cannot take the law in your own hands and expect not to be punished for that. There will be mitigating circumstances, they won’t go in for life. The punishment might just be exactly the time they spent in custody before their trial. But there will be punishment because we have rules about that. (Obviously, this example is not the same as this case of bullying. I’m only using it to compare consequences.)
Was this self defense? She was just defending her digital privacy? I’m not a lawyer. As a layman, I’m going to say this does not meet the legal criteria. Morally? Absolutely.
We can meter out appropriate punishment to everybody else here: the school that maybe responded badly. The parents of the dipshits who got their hands on an undress app. The fact that there are undress apps available to middle schoolers or anybody really. Etc. But we also have the benefit of hindsight.
You and I get why she threw punches. We might even go as far as cheering her on, in our heads, had we somehow been there. Go get those bastards, black eyes for all of them. My point was merely that if you resorted to violence like that you cannot expect not to be punished for it. Like in my extreme example, there are mitigating circumstances. Plenty of them. All should be considered. But there will be something on the record. In this case the suspension/probation, which I hoped is the punishment for every fight.
She got suspended and he didn’t (yet, as we find out halfway through). The headline of the linked article in the post implied that this was the outrageous part. My criticism was aimed first and foremost at the writer/editor of that article.
Why do you say that?
She was being harmed and so she defended herself, and the harm stopped. Looks like self-defense to me.
In my view, self defense is a legal defense when somebody used violence to defend themselves against an immediate threat of physical harm. I don’t see how, legally, you could expand the parameters to fit this case. But I’m also not a lawyer.
The argument it seems to me you could be building here is that the victim of despicable bullying, ignored and misunderstood by all the authorities, lashed out out of desperation. And that in itself is an act of self defense. I think that’s a moral way to look at it, but not a legal one. The latter will look at this exactly as mitigating circumstances.
What is required is that there is a reasonable belief that they are in imminent physical danger. There are other factors, like attempting to deescalate and such, but she actually did that when she begged her school for help.
And being sexually harassed is reasonable reason to believe that they are in danger of sexual assault, or worse.
That’s why, when the police got involved, the boy was arrested and now faces 10 charges. She has not been arrested and is not facing charges. Legally, she seems to be in the clear.
You clearly have a different take on the situation. A bunch of dipshits showing deepfakes around on a bus, ostensibly with other people around who are not party to this dispute and a grownup in the driver’s seat, does not convince me that even your interpretation applies here. But neither one of us was present, we are both arm chairing this, we are just sitting in different arm chairs. Let’s leave it at that.
You’re the only one armchairing this and quite poorly. You seem to have a cop-drama level understanding of laws.
Unless you were present at the time, you are in the metaphorical arm chair as well.
I’m not going to leave it. You’re wrong and you need to know it.
It wasn’t just one instance on the bus. These AI nudes were being traded around for a while and it wasn’t just happening to this one girl either. There were multiple victims that already been going to the school and the police for help. This was, essentially, a child pornography ring.
In the aftermath we see that the police also interpret the situation the way I do, which is why they arrested the boy while the girl who beat him up was not arrested. Not to say that the police should be totally trusted in legal matters, obviously, it’s up to the court to determine the facts from here. I don’t think the court is going to be sympathetic to this little creep.
In light of the fact that she and the other girls went to the authorities, what the fuck else were they supposed to do? Because it looks like beating this little creep up was actually the correct decision, because it got the legal ball rolling.
A small point of order: she didn’t “beat him up”. She threw a couple of punches. There’s no reports he was in any way seriously harmed which what “beat up” as a term suggests to me.
I’ll take your points under advisement but I’m most certainly done arguing about this.
I read the actual article when it was posted on social media weeks ago right after it happened.
I want you to understand something. Revenge porn is a crime and a horribly traumatizing experience. She didn’t beat the kid up. She hit him. He didn’t end up in hospital.
The school literally is at fault because they didn’t actually do their due diligence to find out what happened and make even the most miniscule attempt to prevent the circulation of such photos. They expected a child or group of children to admit to circulating pornographic materials. If the school bus has video/photo evidence that this student had or circulated those materials he should be facing expulsion.
What we have to look at is whether or not this was self defense. I’d argue that the victim was trying to defend her right to privacy and to not have pornography materials of her spread around the school. This was defense of her mental health when the system failed.
I’d argue that while I don’t condone fighting this is exactly the situation that leads to it and the school administration let it happen. Why did they allow these kids to get on the same bus? Why was she refused permission to call home? Why didn’t they have her parent or guardian come pick her up?
There were multiple points where the school could have done something to mitigate the circumstances around this assault. They didn’t. They failed. And then they punished her and did nothing to fix the situation where a real and serious criminal act involving CP circulation was happening.
That’s bullshit.
Edit: You know what I think is even more bullshit? The situation probably wouldn’t have gotten a resolution at all if she hadn’t “snapped” . There’s thousands of kids getting bullied everyday who don’t snap and the only time their situation changes is when they are perceived to have done something wrong due to continued abuse being heaped upon them that the adults do nothing about. That’s not okay.
It was self defense as far as I’m concerned.
Also? It got the police involved, and now the creep is facing charges.
If this was my daughter i’d have thrown her a party after beating those little shits. Violence is the answer if people in authority are not addressing the situation. It always has been the answer since most of history.
^ = why gun ownership should be criminalised
Really? I would have said because of all the school shootings.
Here’s the AP source: https://apnews.com/article/school-deepfake-nude-ai-cyberbullying-0ead324241cf390e1a7f3378853f23cb
The headline is unequivocally false. She was suspended for attacking her bully. The AI nudes had nothing to do with the school’s decision to suspend her.
that’s a fucking glaring issue
Woah there.
We don’t read articles.
We just circle jerk over how obviously smarter than everyone else we are.
Stop ruining the fun dude. If I wanted logic and common sense I’d be touching grass, not in Lemmy.
How dare you make a reasonable take and argument off of a clickbait article!?