Be it books, movies, documentaries, or even music. I feel like I have people around me whom wish to fight violence with violence, with mentalities like “we should just counter-invade and show them who’s boss” or “I’m not afraid to fight for what I believe in”, showing a clear intent against an “enemy”.
“The enemy” is such a dehumanizing perspective, and only breeds further animosity. I wish for them to see that we all manage to find justifications for our actions, but that doesn’t make it worthy of just any sacrifice.
I recently saw the Norwegian movie Max Manus, which is about real events during WW2.
Tap for spoiler
He survives, but with almost none of his friends, and after the war he struggles with alcoholism and nightmares for the rest of his life.
It left me with a feeling of despite “victory”, many people paid with more than just their life. And this is the feeling I wish others to feel, just for a bit, and ponder if “doing the right thing” really is the best thing.
No one should want conflict, and I wish to emphasize just how much we really should try and avoid warmongering. I’ve seen uncensored videos from modern wars, been in the military, had a great grandfather who fought in WW2 (who also struggled with nightmares and PTSD until his natural death), and all of it makes me dread the potential of the horrors that happen to everyone involved in an armed conflict, especially the innocents and the kids…
So, any suggestions for media that conveys this in a way that makes one really reflect?
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I subscribe to the philosophy that there is no such thing as an anti-war film or story. They all romanticize and dramatize war in a way to captivate the audience, and to where the horrors of it are observable, yet not experiencable and therefore not understandable.
The Boy in The Striped Pajamas and Empire Of The Sun spring to mind.
Edit: Also, The Deer Hunter.
Godzilla Minus One does a great job at showing post WW2 Japan, and the effect the war had on the Japanese people.
Das Boot, it is the classic movie about German Uboats from the perspective of the Uboat crew.
It does not glorify, it does not condemn, but the one thing that stays with you is the feeling of futility.
They did all the terrible and heroic things, cheered at hitting convoys, let allied seamen drown because of their orders, escaped again and again, showed fanatism and self-reflection, panic and comradeship, and in the end, when they come back to their home base, it just doesn’t matter.
spoiler
As they arrive, half-afloat, battered, relieved and enthusiastic about being home, while a marching band plays in the background, they get hit with an air raid. Bombs fall, all die, only the narrator (war reporter) survives to tell the tale. All for nothing. All of it completely futile.
Must give that another watch. Absolutely incredible flick.
Edit: actually just ordered the Bluray. Less than a tenner. Can’t wait.
The Anime Grave of the Fireflies (AniDB) is a heart-wrenching telling of the impact and consequences of war.
Come and See (TMDB), a 1985 soviet anti-war film. I haven’t watched it yet, but I’ve seen it mentioned multiple times as significant or exceptional, heart-wrenching. (Looks like other comments mention it as well, as expected. :P)
I’m a bit disappointed I can’t recall much else right now, and of different kinds than just the misery of war. Two other anime pop into my head, but the aspects asked for aren’t a major part of them.
There are many videos and reports of Ukraine military defense operations that can show what combat realistically looks like. Even for the righteous, it’s a harsh situation. Moral superiority does not help much when you’re sitting in trenches, in the situational, practical aspects at least.
A Soviet anti-war film sounds intriguing, especially considering the times. I’ll definitely give that a watch. Grave of the Fireflies has been on my list for ages as a Studio Ghibli film, so I guess it’s about time for that one too, thanks.
When it comes to real footage, I’ve seen too much. It’s what still sits with me, the gut-wrenching despair people are exposed to, and the lifelong nightmares in active development. There are videos I’d like for certain people to see, but I’m unsure whether it’s a good idea or not to show them. NSFL content is something I generally don’t share unless I’m completely confident it will have a constructive reception. Hence I ask for common media instead, that is thought provoking on a less risky level.
I’m so scared to play that game. I also am very much not willing to engage in real warfare, so, I guess it’d be preaching to the choir… But yeah…
Was scrolling through to see if this was posted yet. Such a hard game, emotionally and mechanically. I’ve never managed to get very far through it before everything goes wrong and my characters start dying horribly (Which is entirely the point).
It’s a really good portrayal of the civilian toll of war I think.
Was about to comment about watching that and then realised I was thinking about Land of Mine, but that is also a film I would suggest.
The Unknown Soldier is quite well made and high budget war movie by Finnish standards and it does nothing to glorify war.
All quiet on the western front (movie from 2022) feels like your example a bit without the post-war consequences. Grave of the firefly (anime) is on my watch list and is very anti-war from what I understand. Catch 22 maybe. The Wars by Timothy Findley felt very anti-war but is a tough read. The cruel sea was a good read. Vinland sagas first season is very good, lots of action but some really hard hitting scenes for an anime.
Grave of the Firefly is the greatest movie that I will never watch again.
just make sure you’re in the right mindset when you watch Grave of the Fireflies – great movie BUT it is an emotional gut-punch
Yeah I’m kinda terrified to watch that one, not gonna lie. I get an emotional overreaction just looking at the cover…
Absolutely worth it though. Maybe watch it together with somebody so you can do some adhoc mutual therapy lol.
I love Ghibli movies so much because they tell stories very well, they are never black and white, and they always make me feel and ponder things. (And all that with beautiful art and music).
Empire of the Sun is a film about civilians caught in a war zone.
The Things They Carried, by Tim O’Brien, is a collection of short stories about the Vietnam War. It shows the exhilaration, the terror, the cruelty and hardship of living through a war. It definitely doesn’t glorify conflict.
My War Gone By, I Miss It So, by Anthony Loyd, is a firsthand account of the Bosnian conflict of the 90s. It is ugly and brutal, and the author tries to give an honest presentation of his own state of mind at the time.
Black Hawk Down (the book, not the movie), by Mark Bowden, is a fairly thorough account of the incident in Mogadishu in 1993. Bowden did a lot of research and describes the political background that led to the UN and US presence in Somalia, and all of the mistakes that led up to the helicopter being shot down and what happened after. He interviewed many of the military personnel who were actually involved and recounts the events from several different perspectives. And as the Wikipedia article says:
Bowden simultaneously manages to capture the siege mentality felt by both civilians and the US soldiers, as well as the broad sentiment among many residents that the Rangers were to blame for the majority of the battle casualties.
This is a very realistic presentation of what combat is like, framed inside the perspective of the overall military operation. Bowden doesn’t shy away from describing the mistakes in decision-making, but also does a fair job of describing how lack of information or bad information leads to bad decisions in the moment which result in people dying for no good reason. He definitely doesn’t glorify the conflict. My overall impression after reading it was “I hope I never have to be involved in anything like that”.
And finally, Alice’s Restaurant, by Arlo Guthrie, is a song about the draft.
if you wanna end war’n’stuff ya gotta sing loud
The Things They Carried is so beautifully written. The story On the Rainy River, about a young man struggling with whether to avoid the draft, had this which has stuck with me:
If the stakes ever became high enough - if the evil were ever evil enough, if the good were good enough - I would simply tap a secret reservoir of courage that had been accumulating inside me over the years. Courage, I seemed to think, comes to us in finite quantities, like an inheritance, and by being frugal and stashing it away and letting it earn interest, we steadily increase our moral capital in preparation for that day when the account must be drawn down. It was a comfortable theory. It dispensed with all those bothersome little acts of daily courage; it offered hope to the repetitive coward; it justified the past while amortizing the future.
Echoing Alice’s Restaurant. It’s funny too.
New bar trivia team name: The Group Dubya Bench
I haven’t watched it, but They Shall not Grow Old (2018) (TMDB) may also be of interest.
A user review says it takes a neutral position, and while it shows negative consequences, it also shows people liking comadery etc. So not sure if it would serve your goals in particular.
Defcon: Everybody Dies
That game has actually been studied by scientists, because it changes people’s attitudes towards nuclear weapons.
The game literally is about using nuclear weapons to win.
How does it look? It isn’t overly grotesque. There are no melting faces, no devastated landscapes. Nothing. It’s just a minimalist map of the world.
You might hear that and think that it’s a pro-war game. But it actually has the opposite effect on players.
How can it be? Simple. The game is accurate in how swiftly it all ends if there is a nuclear war. And by playing it, that truth is engraved into players’ intuitions.
“Would you like to play a game?”
Interesting suggestion! I’ve heard about this game, and my initial thoughts were exactly as you described, so maybe I should try it out indeed.
Also thanks for linking a study!
Anything written by Kurt Vonnegut
pretty much every war movie
the classics have got Saving Private Ryan, Nolan’s got Dunkirk, Best Cinematography’s got 1917, Ghibli’s got Grave of the Fireflies (released same day as Totoro even)…
for anti-war that’s not depressing, there’s also AFAIK the over-the-top Helldivers
for things that feel “clean” instead of bloody there’s the elegant video game Nier: Automata
Pretty much every war movie glorifies war haha. Saving Private Ryan, Dunkirk, and 1917 are famous because of their awesome looking action scenes. All those films glorify war and convey a sense of heroism, urgency, and righteousness for people involved in a war. If the director’s wanted to make a film that didn’t glorify war, they would’ve focused on the shitty parts of war instead of showing the audience all the cool heroic things soldiers get up to.
Grave of the Fireflies does not glorify war. Thin Red Line is maybe the only movie about soldiers that doesn’t make war seem cool.
Vinland Saga
“I have no enemies.” It’s an anime with two seasons so far. The manga is getting close to complete. Takes place around 1000 ad with the wars between the Vikings and the English. Basically the first season is about revenge while the second pivots hard to redemption. It’s ultimately a story about pacifism.
Wow. I dropped it too early then.
I kinda rolled my eyes and was like “Is EVERY Viking story just an endless circle of killing fathers killing sons killing fathers again?”
Maybe I should give it another chance…
Ya the first season reminded me a lot of Berserk. You’re following along with a character whose sole purpose is to kill and survive.
But you see his father in the first few episodes, a man who moved his family far away from the Danes, a man who runs a village and is beloved, a man who despite being a master with a sword is shown trying to lean new skills and grow. He was a man who couldve led the Vikings and lived in luxury but wanted his kids to grow up away from the battlefield. The story is the unfortunate journey of Thorfinn having to realize what his father was trying to teach him but the hard way. Even though the first season is a lot of fighting, there is very little in the second.
Don‘t get me wrong the conclusion is phenomenal but the second season just drags on and on and on. They should‘ve made the second part a much shorter movie. The prologue season on the other hand was absolutely amazing and peak television.
Goes to show that every war movie (or in this case TV show) is a pro-war message just as much as it is an anti-war message. It all depends on who you ask. No matter how much effort you put into getting your message across.
An amazing movie is come and see. One of the best movies I have ever seen (no pun intended).
Edit: the comments says it all, just the type of thing you asked (or what I understood you asked).
I came here to say this too! The other one that springs to mind is Threads. Nuclear conflict as opposed to ‘traditional’ warfare but very illustrative.
