I encourage this type of education. Kids need to be held accountable for their actions, just like everyone else.
Normalize humility
We pay a lot for this school
Then don’t. Send your kids to public school. Just don’t don’t pretend that by paying for private school your child is somehow entitled to act the fool and not be held to account.
But who am I kidding. In the USA a lot of private schools work just like that: mom and dad’s money is the worth of the student and they will be privileged accordingly.
A friend of mine is a teacher, and he told me the following story a while back:
A student had an oral exam and was so nervous that he couldn’t get a word out. So my friend coordinated with the “exam committee” to give the student a second chance, which, fortunately, was possible that very same day thanks to some persuasion among his colleagues. After my friend worked with the student to help him regain his confidence, the second attempt at the exam went better - the student was still very nervous, but overall, it was enough to barely pass the exam. The student was absolutely thrilled, and the examiners were reasonably satisfied.
My friend thought to himself: All right, that turned out well after all - but unfortunately, no: The student’s parents sued the school because they were dissatisfied with their son’s exam grade. The lawsuit was based on the claim that the exam regulations weren’t strictly followed, since the student had to take the exam twice (with different exam topics, so the other students wouldn’t be at a disadvantage, of course). The parents won the lawsuit, and the court ruled that the oral exam must be repeated.
So now the completely dismayed student had to take the exam again - a nightmare for the poor guy. The examiners were the same ones who, despite the absurdity of his parents’ demands, remained well-disposed toward him. However, the student was understandably even more nervous the third time - so much so that he once again couldn’t get a single word out. This time, my friend’s hands were tied, since everything had to be completely correct from an administrative standpoint. So, unfortunately, the examiners had no choice but to fail the nervous student, meaning that, thanks to his parents, he ultimately did not receive his diploma.
So here too: insane parents who even ruined their own son’s graduation because of their unrealistic expectations.
It’s a real shame, but unfortunately that’s how it went all thanks to the student’s crazy parents…
What country is this where you have to pass an oral exam to graduate and parents can sue schools over exam results?
Germany.
However, the complaint was not directed at the grade itself, but rather at a violation of the examination regulations, which do not allow for a retake of an oral exam simply because the student is too nervous to pass. That is why my friend was unable to secure another exception on the student’s third attempt - everything unfortunately had to be strictly correct.
I don’t teach myself, but I’ve heard from various friends that lawsuits over the most absurd things are definitely a thing in Germany, too. As a result, teachers have far fewer freedoms than they did ten years ago - and also face much more bureaucratic red tape to document everything in a way that reduces the risk of lawsuits.
I’m not really familiar with that area myself, but unfortunately, I can easily imagine how frustrating it must be for the teachers.
Edit: Here is an article that describes the problem (in German).
That kid must have been livid with his parents.
And I bet he’s too terrified to tell them.
I get the distinct impression being yelled at by his parents are why he was so nervous of speaking in public. It was the case for me as a kid
That’s a bingo. Same here.
Probably didn’t say a word about it
He’ll get his payback when he never comes back and goes through the legal loopholes to change his identity.
Fear makes for interesting motivations.
Idk but IB regulations are kinda like this, and ive heard of people actually taking other students/teachers to court over shit. IB is the most fucked up school you could choose ever, do not choose it(speaking from experience). So if your child wants to go on an international line its much better to get some government scolarship kindof thing if thats possible.
I went to an IB school 25+ years ago, didn’t seem that crazy then. I’m curious how time has changed this
I’m very curious with a vested interest, as my young’un is going to a school with both IB and other types of qualifications on offer to study. How is IB flawed in comparison to, say, GCSE or A levels? Would value any insight.
I took the IB and IGCSE. Trust me, I almost killed myself during the IGCSE. No such problems during the IB.
*Edit: I payed basically nothing for the IB diploma in Germany, it was from 11 to 12 grade, so not the “IB learners” thing people do in primary etc. The work load was a lot and I was taking college courses on the side, as well as creating a music portfolio outside of school, and applying to American colleges. But I managed pretty well. No trauma from the work-load for me. YMMV though, some people here seem to report very bad experiences. I should note that the IB was much more work than my first two years of college.
For context, I was very dyslexic (but had compensated pretty well for things like reading and writing) and was very academically interested, but the IGCSE curriculum is the most anti-dyslexia and anti-academia curriculum you could take. It basically tries to make everyone into good little government puppets. All the exams are about short-term memorization and surface-level understanding, the math course is laughably easy, drama is a farce, and English is genuinely going to make your kid dummer.
The IB is also very flawed, when I was taking it, and also today, as I am regularly told by a friend who teaches the IB and grades IB exams for English Literature in Germany. But for me, back then, as a student, it was infinitely better; suddenly I was independent, could pursue things academically (except in physics, the IB doesn’t do the sciences very well IMHO), etc.
But what I have come to realize is that this was very influenced by my IB teachers (same school as where I took the IGCSE though, teachers just had more freedom, were more qualified, etc). Ironically, they often complained about the IB and not having enough flexibility, the exams not being representative, etc. But the IB was still leagues better than the IGCSE (or, god forbid, the Abitur).
I took philosophy, for example, from a wonderful, wonderful teacher, who taught us everything without a text book. Instead, she used her expertise (a doctorate from upenn) and the original texts. Everyone in the class got at least a five, most people who cared, got sevens, myself included. To this day I have not had a better class (we were, admittedly, only five students, which does help).
I don’t think the IB is intrinsically good or intrinsically bad, unlike the IGCSE, which is meant to brain-wash you, and completely and utterly destroy those who don’t want to be brain-washed.
The thing with the IB is going to be the teachers and school. Also note that some of the exams, back when I took them, were kinda random. Like getting a seven (the highest possible grade, fyi) in English or German Lit was a little unpredictable. I can only hope that’s improved.
For context, I also improved hugely academically when entering the IB. I was already interested in higher education, and was taking college classes during the IGCSE (because it sucked so much), but was still roughly a B minus student. Going into the IB I became a top-scoring student within one semester. I graduated with a 43/45, which I don’t think my IGCSE examiners nor myself in 10th grade would have believed. I have a lot to thank my IB teachers for, and ultimately I am very glad a took the IB. CAS ducking sucks though.
I dont know about the american/uk system, it might be better there. I went to the international line in europe and it was a complete disharmony between how the teachers thought they should teach and what kind of teaching IB required. Theres also a lot of shady stuff with IB, like you can basically pay for an expensive tutor and completely coincidentally they will teach you the exact right knowledge to get a good score on the exams. The problem with this is that if the exams dont have a certain subject in them that year, the tutor wont teach that. Basically if you want your kid to be a successfull businessman or whatever, and you have a lot of money, 100% send em to IB, but if you want them to think for themselves, theres very probably a better option. Once again this mainly applies to my experiences in europe, there are many countries here where IB is a joke, like in hungary nobody goes there cause you have to pay, get worse education, and dont really have any oppurtunities going forward with it. Id say go ask other people but some of them will be absolute IB shills for no reason, and others will say its the antichrist itself. Also from what i understand, you do have to pay for education in uk to get somewhere right? Then id guess IB isnt that bad cause youre paying either way for school.
You can pay for better education ie a private school but it’s very expensive (in our area, about 3-4k a term) and the state schools are almost as good.
Also, we want our child to grow up in the ‘real’ world, in a more diverse environment, worldviews, cultures etc. We could, just about afford to go private with a lot of cutbacks and scrimping… but we’ve thought about it a lot and would prefer he goes state.
They offer both academic and vocational, both the traditional (age 11-16) GCSEs, and the IB, as well as pathways to vocational trades. I know absolutely nothing about the IB side.
Id say probably stick to the local schools and try to get your kid into an erasmus program? You can save up the money you would spend on private and have them travel europe, its a really eye opening experience(i havent done it but have friends who have).
My partner and many of her friends did IB in the late 2000s and every single one has trauma from the workload and culture of expected achievement and it doesn’t seem to have benefited their careers at all. (I did Running Start instead, a Washington State early college program, and had a very positive experience)
I did GATE (Gifted and Talented Education) from fourth through eighth grade and went with an AP-heavy high school (graduated in 2010) instead of an IB school in the district, and I’d say it left similar scars.
There were aspects that I think were beneficial, such as specialized math tutoring and more hands-on projects, but god the pressure and workload was truly damaging at such a young age. Add undiagnosed ADHD, and you’ve got an 11 year old self-harming as a method to stay focused during the hours and hours of daily homework.
I developed a different coping strategy. When I figured out I was smarter than everyone else my age I simply stopped doing homework and coasted on high test scores. That worked from age 8 to 16 when I had to contend with the fact that I had never learned how to actually study or manage my time. Pretty easy to slip through the cracks when you’re well-behaved and the district didn’t have any money for advanced learning programs anyway~
On the first point, it might have been a combined grade so that the fail is based on doing badly in multiple components. Eg if you take a French exam here, it’s
- 20% aural
- 55% written
- 25% oral
We only hear about the oral component because of the interesting story, but decent chance the student was a bozo and bombed the other components too.
That poor kid is probably so abused by the parents to make him so anxious.
It happens so much sadly. I remember a classmate of mine getting a 9 out of 10 on an exam and when he heard that he started stabbing himself with the pointy end of a compass because it wasn’t a 10 out of 10. Apparently the poor guy was chastised at home if he didn’t get a 9,5 at the least.
Very strange that the second attempt wasn’t simply stricken from the record if it wasn’t allowed at all. If second attempts weren’t allowed, why give them a third attempt? I wonder if there was a proper way to get a second attempt that wasn’t followed, like you have to apply to the state exam body rather than handling it in house.
This appears to be the reasoning: The first and second attempts were invalidated because both were inadmissible under the examination regulations (strictly speaking, the student should have failed on the first attempt). Therefore, a new exam date was scheduled, on which the student then failed for the same reason, he should have failed on the first attempt (the exam regulations do not provide for exceptions due to nervousness, but rather stipulate that the examinee fails in such cases because his performance is insufficient to pass).
So only the third attempt was counted, which meant the student did not receive his diploma, since he would have had to pass that oral exam to do so - which, unfortunately, he did not after his second attempt was striken from the record.
My friend had simply tried to appeal to human leniency, which is strictly speaking not permitted under official rules. It’s quite possible that the first attempt wasn’t even officially recorded, since the student should have already failed. Unfortunately, I don’t know what exactly was recorded for the first attempt.
Apparently, however, the judge or the responsible administrative official at the Ministry of Education had at least some sympathy, since they had the entire exam retaken. But it’s also quite possible that this is the standard procedure when inconsistencies arise regarding the exam regulations. Administratively, it’s probably way easier than initiating an detailed “investigation” of the case.
But yeah, all in all: pretty strange.
Edit: I think it is certainly possible to reschedule an exam, but I assume that a doctor’s note must be submitted to prove that the examinee is unable to take the exam for health reasons.
The student might have been able to get such a note, but since this seems to be an ongoing problem, it would probably have been nothing more than a temporary reprieve.
I couldn’t be a teacher, because bozo would have been one of the kinder words I’d use in such a situation.
Yeah, the teacher is going to get a fun talk with management and probably be forced to write an apology.
Teaching is a risky job these days, and thus not done as well as it could be in a world without parental bozos.
Private schools are tough because you have to educate both the children and their parents
In public school, all the kids are smoking weed, and are chill, in private schools all the kids can afford and are doing coke, and therefore not very chill
“unacceptable language”
i’d wager that this parent’s gripe is not about the word “bozo” but that their child’s behavior was criticized.
accountability is not abuse.
Maybe they’re a family of clowns, and they consider “Bozo” to be a racial epithet against their people.
Maybe they’re followers of a clown religion where Clown, Bozo the is considered a holy figure? It’d be like taking the Lord’s name in vain!
Its gotta be this one. I’ve got three members of my family with registered clown personas, and they’d be happy as clams to be called bozo, but correct you to their actual stage name.
In what world is it OK to text a teacher? Like how does this person even know their teacher’s phone number? This conversation is exactly what parent teacher conferences are for.
The majority of my daughter’s teachers in primary and middle school gave out their numbers. Not all, and it wasn’t a requirement, but the majority.
Not that I ever used them. Teachers work hard enough, they don’t need to be available 24x7.
That’s beyond strange to me. The only time I’ve ever used my personal phone for work purposes was the one job I had where they paid for it.
I agree, it seems odd; however, I will state that my kid’s school provides an app that allows you to communicate in both directions with teachers. They also use the app to make general announcements like closure for snow, etc. My wife is generally the one doing non-in-person communicating so I haven’t actually used the app (I only recently learned it exists), but hopefully the teacher can filter notifications outside of school hours.
Were I a teacher, I’d be glad to have a way to communicate without sharing personal information.
Often there are apps specific for school, which I think is totally reasonable. (Although I’d like the schools to use less proprietary software and more open).
It is a very expensive private school. Probably got different rules.
this is the primary way I interact with my kids teachers, and they’re in public school. we use an app, so the parents don’t have access to the staffs personal phone numbers, so there’s really no response unless the staff member is available to read and respond as part of their job.
The amount of parents that think that teachers owe respect to their kids above all else is infuriating. It’s a real problem in Brazil, both in public and private schools
I think respect is fine and should be shown to everyone. These parents want the teachers to defer to their kids. Teachers cannot teach in an environment where they are subordinate to every child in the classroom. Kids will not behave if they know they will never be beld accountable, there is a perfect example of this undeveloping the USA as a nation.
Forgot:
I see where he gets it from.
left off because, heh, reasons.
I would be sooooo tempted to respond “well this explains where they get it from”.
I’m terribly sorry sir, I was unaware his stupidity is congenital. I’ll be more mindful of his disability going forward.
Nah, no need to drag disabled people into this thing about a student being a Bozo
rip bozo
Man. If my kids teacher ever contacted me like this, you can be damned sure my kid would be disciplined appropriately. Most likely a reduction of privileges until the teacher acknowledged that their behavior had improved. This kind of shit would never fly in my house.
Luckily my kids were all very well behaved and conscientious about their schooling.
I’m with you. Call my kids out if they are being dickheads. Call me if it doesn’t improve - I’ll set them straight
Righteous parenting.
Is that a paladin subclass? Can’t find it in the player handbook
Punished if ever they screw around? Already well behaved.
Hmm, what a coincidence 🤣
My sarcasm meter is broken.
Its like when i was in high school when people would say “aww feck” and teachers would swear jar us, or tell us off. So everybody just said fuck instead, if your gonna bitch about us “swearing” and using alternate words to comply with your “appropriate language” we might as well make it worth the 25 cents
well… I agree you should just swear.
Expensive pirate school
That sounds like a fun career change, cool beards, getting to hang out in the Caribbean, chests of gold.
I’ll be joining the pirate school next semester
Yeah you thought I was joking. These are the assholes ripping your bosses boss off in the future. Even the pirates‘ clothing sucks nowadays. Burning beard? Best I can do is a fucking vape. And the worst part ? I went to a pirate school
