The point is that we can’t count on neo-liberals to do the right thing, they’re complicit in all this. So the Dems as a whole aren’t a party we can rely on until we primary them out.
So the Dems as a whole aren’t a party we can rely on until we primary them out.
Not happening before 26 or 28.
So your solution?
And please don’t say 3rd party. It’s obvious to anyone that pays attention that no 3rd party is viable and won’t be for a long, long time, if ever. No 3rd party has made themselves a household name. No 3rd party even has a SINGLE member in Congress. In the 2024 election the most popular 3rd party candidate only got 0.5% of the total votes cast.
There’s some primaries left for 2026 to vote in, work from there. The neo-liberal dems are bad but they’re not worm brained at least. Just hope they don’t put fucking Newsom up for 2028 otherwise it’ll be same as it ever was with him.
Its going to happen. So, get your 3rd party together, or climb the DNC because y’all now have . . . . Less than three years to become political leaders.
That’s a shit fucking point. A better point: fascists won and they did not need to.
Neo-liberals are not fascists. They’re greedy, nihilistic, empty husks. But they are not frothing at the mouth for killing gay’s and gassing brown people. Neo-liberals can actually be relied upon to be capitalistic and not give a shit about nationalism or “traditional values” and are generally easier to fight because they don’t operate a cult (or at least not like the fascists do).
Some non-voter’s justification of “they’re both the same” is pants on head regarded.
See, I need to know then how serious that perspective is because for me, blurring the lines between ideologies (even bad ones) is largely just an emotional manipulation tactic.
You call a neo-liberal a fascist and they’ll get really upset. You call a fascist a liberal of any kind… they’ll also get really upset. So if that’s the goal that makes sense. But then leftists will say it to other leftists like its actually true, particularly campists, auth-left, and marxist-leninists will do this and this just seems dumb to me. They are different threats and should be treated differently.
I think you misunderstand the origins and meaning of the saying. The saying itself is based on historical context, where liberals in places like Italy and Germany chose to support growing fascist movements in the name of maintaining some sort of stability and perceived normalcy, instead of combatting those movements alongside communists and socialists. As an example, in my opinion we are seeing the same history play out again in the modern United States as various corporations, universities, and state governments, etc are following along with certain policies of the Trump administration in order to maintain normalcy instead of choosing to resist those policies and cause an upset. The saying “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” is based on the historical kowtowing of moderates and liberals to fascist movements instead of choosing to resist.
This is the single dumbest meme I’ve ever seen in my life and you should be ashamed because I cannot be ashamed enough for the both of us that you posted this.
Dial 911 and ask the operator to help you get back in school.
“Oh damn, we should continue to just suffer in this system and not demand better about it because can’t change it!” - That’s what you sound like right now.
I’m in favor of changing the system but I’m not going to let the idea of a better system delude me into thinking that we’re in that improved system already. We absolutely should change the system, but when you look at the system we had at the time of the election, who else were people going to vote for if they didn’t want trump to win? We didn’t have ranked choice, we didn’t even get a primary for the Democrats.
Blaming the Democrats for not winning is taking away the blame and attention away from the people everyone should be mad at, the Republicans. Dems fucked up, but that’s not holding Republicans accountable for what they are doing right now.
We’re already shooting ourselves in the foot. The Dems, even when they had a trifecta in 2008, were still dropping the ball. They don’t elect effective people, just people who keep ensuring payments go up and not down.
Objectively wrong because there were third party candidates already on the ballot! How could you say they would’ve won when they already were running and lost?! “Oh they would’ve won if they were there” They were there! [These are they!](Third-party and independent candidates for the 2024 United States presidential election - Wikipedia https://share.google/xcOuOQvNZvwLprps9)
I didn’t say they would’ve won, stop moving goal posts.
I said they couldn’t have lost more than Kamala did. Because it was a binary thing on three counts?
Did she win the Presidency? No.
Did she keep the Senate? No.
Did she win the House? No.
No matter what you think of Claudia De La Cruz or Jill Stein, it’s just a simple fact neither one of them could have given a worse outcome than that one. And given the resources Kamala had, that’s particularly pathetic.
If by common logic voting is power, we need to organize and vote people into office that better represent us. Not just resign ourselves to this fate. I just don’t understand this desire to not put up any fight at all. It seems counter intuitive to survival.
I’ve voted in primaries for better candidates for the Dems since I could vote, for more progressive people so we have good representation. As much as I hate establishment Dems I’m not going to stop trying if for it. I’m disenfranchised by them more often than not and that makes me angry to want to do something, not be spiteful.
I’ll probably still vote for dems for logical self preservation and personal gain if you must know. IDK. We’ll see. My sense of self preservation is in a fight with my resentment and its basically a stalemate.
I see those stupid fucking “earth destroying comet for president” bumper stickers and think “Yeah sure that’d be unironically good.” now instead of just rolling my eyes.
I’ve grown up just being resentful or rolling over and seen how little it helps, how much it hurts you overtime. I have had to fight to just survive, being a little bit off or weird in a highly conservative society is often a social death sentence if not a physical one. I refuse to ever be a helpless victim again, and I’ll find others who refuse that as well.
Yeah, but you can’t primary the Dems thoroughly enough before 26 or 28.
So the only VIABLE option in the near term to STOP FASCISM is voting Dem.
But I’m sure a bunch of fools will still do the 3rd party thing come 28.
Normally I’d be fine with them voting 3rd party in midterms, but in case anyone hasn’t noticed, things are getting pretty dark here. This is not the time to fuck around with a 3rd party, even for midterms.
Vote 3rd party in local/state elections AFTER Americans stop getting executed in the street by masked federal goons. And don’t vote 3rd party for president until a 3rd party can actually win the presidency.
They could have won, people like you harassing others is part of the reason they didn’t. Go ahead and keep acting like the smartest guy in the room, you just look like a petulant child trying to force others to agree with you.
Blaming the Democrats for what the Republicans are doing is like blaming the guy who opened the door for the serial killer to get into the house. Yeah, you shouldn’t have done that, yeah, you fucked up, yeah, you knew what would happen, but that’s not the same level of bad as the actual serial killer stabbing people. It’s even shifting blame away from the serial killer and holding the killer less accountable.
The point is that we can’t count on neo-liberals to do the right thing, they’re complicit in all this. So the Dems as a whole aren’t a party we can rely on until we primary them out.
Not happening before 26 or 28.
So your solution?
And please don’t say 3rd party. It’s obvious to anyone that pays attention that no 3rd party is viable and won’t be for a long, long time, if ever. No 3rd party has made themselves a household name. No 3rd party even has a SINGLE member in Congress. In the 2024 election the most popular 3rd party candidate only got 0.5% of the total votes cast.
Not happening.
So…
There’s some primaries left for 2026 to vote in, work from there. The neo-liberal dems are bad but they’re not worm brained at least. Just hope they don’t put fucking Newsom up for 2028 otherwise it’ll be same as it ever was with him.
Its going to happen. So, get your 3rd party together, or climb the DNC because y’all now have . . . . Less than three years to become political leaders.
That’s a shit fucking point. A better point: fascists won and they did not need to.
Neo-liberals are not fascists. They’re greedy, nihilistic, empty husks. But they are not frothing at the mouth for killing gay’s and gassing brown people. Neo-liberals can actually be relied upon to be capitalistic and not give a shit about nationalism or “traditional values” and are generally easier to fight because they don’t operate a cult (or at least not like the fascists do).
Some non-voter’s justification of “they’re both the same” is pants on head regarded.
It’s never not true.
Are you wearily representing yourself in Bart or mocking people like Bart?
The first one.
See, I need to know then how serious that perspective is because for me, blurring the lines between ideologies (even bad ones) is largely just an emotional manipulation tactic.
You call a neo-liberal a fascist and they’ll get really upset. You call a fascist a liberal of any kind… they’ll also get really upset. So if that’s the goal that makes sense. But then leftists will say it to other leftists like its actually true, particularly campists, auth-left, and marxist-leninists will do this and this just seems dumb to me. They are different threats and should be treated differently.
I think you misunderstand the origins and meaning of the saying. The saying itself is based on historical context, where liberals in places like Italy and Germany chose to support growing fascist movements in the name of maintaining some sort of stability and perceived normalcy, instead of combatting those movements alongside communists and socialists. As an example, in my opinion we are seeing the same history play out again in the modern United States as various corporations, universities, and state governments, etc are following along with certain policies of the Trump administration in order to maintain normalcy instead of choosing to resist those policies and cause an upset. The saying “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” is based on the historical kowtowing of moderates and liberals to fascist movements instead of choosing to resist.
This is the single dumbest meme I’ve ever seen in my life and you should be ashamed because I cannot be ashamed enough for the both of us that you posted this.
Dial 911 and ask the operator to help you get back in school.
Must be your first day on the Internet.
Oh damn you right we should’ve voted for the magical third party that definitely would’ve won
“Oh damn, we should continue to just suffer in this system and not demand better about it because can’t change it!” - That’s what you sound like right now.
I’m in favor of changing the system but I’m not going to let the idea of a better system delude me into thinking that we’re in that improved system already. We absolutely should change the system, but when you look at the system we had at the time of the election, who else were people going to vote for if they didn’t want trump to win? We didn’t have ranked choice, we didn’t even get a primary for the Democrats.
Blaming the Democrats for not winning is taking away the blame and attention away from the people everyone should be mad at, the Republicans. Dems fucked up, but that’s not holding Republicans accountable for what they are doing right now.
We should demand that it be better, but shooting ourselves in the foot while doing it is only going to give us a shot foot
We’re already shooting ourselves in the foot. The Dems, even when they had a trifecta in 2008, were still dropping the ball. They don’t elect effective people, just people who keep ensuring payments go up and not down.
Bullshit.
Continue to delude yourself that neo-liberals are your friend. I’m tired of making the same arguments to closed minded individuals.
I mean it doesn’t sound like it. You’re not even making an argument, just pointing at things and saying “bad!”
The difference between that and administrating at the national level is . . . big.
Very shortsighted indeed.
No third party candidate could have lost as bad as Kamala did. Presidency and both Houses.
Objectively wrong because there were third party candidates already on the ballot! How could you say they would’ve won when they already were running and lost?! “Oh they would’ve won if they were there” They were there! [These are they!](Third-party and independent candidates for the 2024 United States presidential election - Wikipedia https://share.google/xcOuOQvNZvwLprps9)
I didn’t say they would’ve won, stop moving goal posts.
I said they couldn’t have lost more than Kamala did. Because it was a binary thing on three counts?
Did she win the Presidency? No.
Did she keep the Senate? No.
Did she win the House? No.
No matter what you think of Claudia De La Cruz or Jill Stein, it’s just a simple fact neither one of them could have given a worse outcome than that one. And given the resources Kamala had, that’s particularly pathetic.
ALL third party candidates in the last 50 years have always lost everything. Also, Kamala wasn’t running for house or senate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_(U.S._politics)#Electoral_results
She was running for Presidency. And lost. Badly. As her party lost both houses.
Pick any third party, they won just as much as Kamala did - and didn’t spend a billion and a half to do so.
What, so you and I are as successful at federal elections as any third party?
I mean - okay. But some idiots gave them $200 Million for that. We did it for free, apparently.
I’m saying they’re an unworkable idea at almost any price.
I mean, yeah, I’ve won as many delegates as Kamala ever has, so . . .
Can I have some of your $200 million? Or were you one of those low-effort third parties.
That’s the point - my candidate didn’t need $200 million to do just as well as Kamala did in results.
I probably don’t agree with @[email protected] but he said primary them, not vote third party.
I was mostly responding to the first part but yeah, definitely primary the fuckers out.
If by common logic voting is power, we need to organize and vote people into office that better represent us. Not just resign ourselves to this fate. I just don’t understand this desire to not put up any fight at all. It seems counter intuitive to survival.
Bitter and deep spite and resentment. Disgust. Self destructive stubborn catharsis in ruining people who you hate even if it destroys you as well.
Just as the campists who actively live in “amerikkka” as I do for US citizen non-voters now.
I’ve voted in primaries for better candidates for the Dems since I could vote, for more progressive people so we have good representation. As much as I hate establishment Dems I’m not going to stop trying if for it. I’m disenfranchised by them more often than not and that makes me angry to want to do something, not be spiteful.
I’ll probably still vote for dems for logical self preservation and personal gain if you must know. IDK. We’ll see. My sense of self preservation is in a fight with my resentment and its basically a stalemate.
I see those stupid fucking “earth destroying comet for president” bumper stickers and think “Yeah sure that’d be unironically good.” now instead of just rolling my eyes.
I’ve grown up just being resentful or rolling over and seen how little it helps, how much it hurts you overtime. I have had to fight to just survive, being a little bit off or weird in a highly conservative society is often a social death sentence if not a physical one. I refuse to ever be a helpless victim again, and I’ll find others who refuse that as well.
Yeah, but you can’t primary the Dems thoroughly enough before 26 or 28.
So the only VIABLE option in the near term to STOP FASCISM is voting Dem.
But I’m sure a bunch of fools will still do the 3rd party thing come 28.
Normally I’d be fine with them voting 3rd party in midterms, but in case anyone hasn’t noticed, things are getting pretty dark here. This is not the time to fuck around with a 3rd party, even for midterms.
Vote 3rd party in local/state elections AFTER Americans stop getting executed in the street by masked federal goons. And don’t vote 3rd party for president until a 3rd party can actually win the presidency.
Its almost like democrats should have fixed the source of the spoiler effect by replacing First-past-the-post voting in states they control.
Wake up babe, it’s the most important election f our lifetime again.
Democratic apologists have literally been saying this for 26 years. Your strategy of Vote Blue No Matter Who is what brought you to this point.
You want to just have the problems go away without any struggle. And it’s not gonna happen.
They could have won, people like you harassing others is part of the reason they didn’t. Go ahead and keep acting like the smartest guy in the room, you just look like a petulant child trying to force others to agree with you.
Nope
Blaming the Democrats for what the Republicans are doing is like blaming the guy who opened the door for the serial killer to get into the house. Yeah, you shouldn’t have done that, yeah, you fucked up, yeah, you knew what would happen, but that’s not the same level of bad as the actual serial killer stabbing people. It’s even shifting blame away from the serial killer and holding the killer less accountable.