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- cross-posted to:
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Poor one out for all your LGBTQ+ homies in America, they’re about to be hunted for sport.
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This is simply stupid. Harris didn’t lose because of a few memes on her Gaza stance or third party. She lost because she’s a relic of the same neoliberal system that has gotten us where we are. Not so say that Trump isn’t. He is a neoliberal as well, and a fascist at that too. It’s just that trumpists are more willing to go to the polls because of the cult-like party they’re in. Democrats need to be pushed out the door with ideas other than ideas stolen from the right. Kamala Harris fumbled her entire campaign and it was obvious from the get go. I honestly do not understand how people thought she’ll win. Hell, she even embraced the fucking Cheneys.
Blaming indiviguals for not wanting to vote for a pro-genicide candidate works so well. Totally helped us win 2016 and 2024.
Here’s the real issue. The Dems would rather be moderate Republicans than actual left-wing candidates. They spent all their time trying to appeal to modern White wingers and modern right-wing are still vote for people like Trump instead.
I like how the Republicans are now simply labeled Trump. It’s so fitting!
If this is a joke, I apologize for clarifying but the Republican is listed as Trump for both of those races because the Republican nominee was Trump in both those races. They’re not just calling all Republicans Trump LOL
Oh, look how smart you are, you figured out the REAL issue! Conveniently, it had nothing to do with people like you doing everything possible to spread voter apathy, what a coinky-dink!
Look how smart you are, you didn’t vote for the “PrO-gEnoCiDe candidate”, and now we have the actual Pro-Genocide PARTY in charge of the Presidency, Congress and the Supreme Court.
What’s first on your agenda? Email Trump, ask him to stop the genocide, LOL?? Oh hey, maybe the Trump administration will allow Palestinians to seek asylum here in the US right?!?! We all know how friendly they are to immigrants!
You’re so effin’ smart, man! We are all in awe of your genius political acumen.
You should be angry at the millions of people who voted for trump instead. There’s a lot more of them than left wingers with morals.
We should not pander to fascists and their enablers so we are free to say fuck all non voters. You will not have another election anyways so non voters should be cut out of anyones life the same way MAGA is.
Fuck all non voters. They will be regarded the same as Trump voters in the history books and are the same kind of filth as those.
Ok, what’s going on, why is every meme jpegified now? Too much trouble to reverse image search your shitpost? Or have some servers gone rogue with the compression? No, it’s not my eyes.
Dunno what’s wrong with your shit, but it looks fine from here.
True, looks fine on Thunder. A Voyager bug?
Maybe you could say this if the election was close. But the Gaza-Isreal voters are a drop in the bucket.
Yep, non-voters were a much bigger problem for Harris
If the left is divisible by memes its no wonder they lost to the right.
Imagine thinking that billions of dollars in campaign funds were overturned by a picture posted on Lemmy.
The Left is a group so insignificant that we don’t need to cater to their positions at all, but so massive that they’re completely responsible any time we lose.
This is not a shitpost.
I am so sick about the Gaza rhetoric and that’s why we lost. Bitch less then 10% of voters give a shit about Gaza. 40% of voters have major concerns about the economy. The next highest concern was immigration at 20%. Foreign policy was a measly 8% of concern for voters.
This goes for people blaming Jill Stein voters. Kamala got wrecked in this election. Even if you add all 3rd party votes to her she still loses.
deleted by creator
Hey, chasing republican votes didn’t work this time, but I’m sure it will next time. Definitely don’t try appealing to the left.
As long as progressives (and correspondingly, everybody) gets nothing, we’re good 👍👍🤘✊
Do you think we’ll get primaries back? And not the fake ones we’re use to.
No way, the rabble might ask for someone that doesn’t allow Nancy Pelosi to openly do insider trading.
Then the rabble wont show up for elections. No better way to drain the energy out of a voter base then to make their voices feel unheard.
Look at Michigan. Nobody was going to ignore Gaza into a victory. The memes and posts were warnings, not divisions. When it became clear she wanted to take a path close to Biden most of us even laid off because it was clear it was more harmful to keep going.
But it turns out that asking the relatives of genocide victims to vote for someone who won’t commit to stopping it is not a good campaign strategy. The divide in Michigan is well within the 140,000 strong registered voters in the Arab community.
Take your fucking L like an adult.
asking the relatives of genocide victims to vote for someone
There are 160,000 Palestinian-Americans. Most of them originate in the West Bank (especially Ramallah) and Jerusalem. Almost none of them are in Michigan. Michigan’s Arab-Americans are mostly Lebanese-descended.
People with family ties to Gaza were a vanishingly small percentage of the electorate. They’re vastly outnumbered by the people who were suckered by the “Dems = Genocide” concern-trolling.
And yet that community in Michigan told us they have lost entire branches of their families. I’m going to believe the actual people in the community.
Yeah I talked to lebanese people, their family is getting firebombed.
Ok, but like at the end of the day, Michigan didn’t fucking matter… it was over the minute Trump won PA . Besides that, look at the demographics and how they voted. Young people, those most likely to care about the Gazan genocide, split the vote by gender for Trump and Kamala. Specifically young white and Latino men overwhelmingly voted for Trump. Is that supposed to indicate that caring about the genocide in Gaza, something Trump has repeatedly talked about amping up, is something that the vast majority of the voting populace cared about? No. Kamala got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020, and I’m tired of this same gaza, black woman, etc spiel. It can’t be chalked up to these things alone. The democrats ran an appointed candidate that never would have won a primary on her own, and got the consequences of that.
The blame is not on Biden, nor is it on Harris for not caring about Gaza. The blame lies squarely on democratic party for not figuring out a plan sooner, and the 14 million voters that appeared 4 years ago when it was trendy, but not now when the threat is most grim. Not to mention the fact that not voting for Kamala when her opponent has not only stated that he will allow Israel to continue, but will actually ramp up their genocide is just fucking stupidity, no two ways about it. Just as we tell Trump voters not to vote with their feelings and to listen to rational arguments, we must tell left-leaning voters the same.
Gaza was also a big issue for Gen Z, and blaming the voters for not liking you has never ever made them vote for you.
Gaza was also a big issue for Gen Z
It was a convenient excuse for their apathy.
Even if it was, you can not win by berating the people whose votes you need. You just can’t.
And if that was their biggest issue they have a point. If the choice is genocide or genocide then why even bother?
Did you even read my comment? Gen z split along gender lines, especially the Latino and white vote, as seen above. It was a big issue for gen z, but clearly, given the demographics of voters and exit poll answers, Gaza had very little to do with the outcome of this election. Please go fucking read about what happened in the election before making more arguments in which you have no idea what you’re talking about. Like, fuck, just read about it before commenting.
There’s 13 million votes missing and you don’t think there’s any chance of a significant group of Gen Z men being in that group? Gen Z men went for Trump by 2 percentage points. You don’t think there’s 2 percentage points of Gen Z men who decided not to vote because of the biggest issue polled among gen Z men?
And if Gaza and Michigan wasn’t a big deal then why are you even here? The entire discussion in this thread is about Gaza posters. Michigan going red is a pretty big fucking deal. It’s what pushes this from a tip over to a solid win for Trump. Even if Harris got PA, she wouldn’t have won and what percentage of Democrats stayed home in PA because she ran a neoliberal campaign?
Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Gaza was not the biggest issue among gen z voters and while there is a chance that young men didn’t vote for Kamala because of that, it’s much more likely it was general disdain for the democratic candidate. 14 million voters can’t be explained by gen z in any way shape or form anyway, considering the number of gen z voters that did show up. Why am I here? Because it’s fun to use lemmy and have discussions about politics.
Michigan going red is not a big deal. This is an almost exact repeat of trumps 2016 electoral victory yet you’re acting like he’s treading new ground entirely lmfao. Yes, even if Harris got PA she wouldn’t have won, but after PA was lost, literally nothing else mattered. There was exactly zero chance she won without PA whereas she actually had a path to victory without Michigan. I personally live in PA and I can tell you that I know exactly zero democrats that didn’t vote because of Gaza. Fun fact about that too: I was literally going door to door doing political canvassing, and what I can tell you, overwhelmingly, is that anybody whose top issue was Gaza was easily convinced that Harris is the better choice, whereas tons of men my age (older gen z) were intending to vote Trump because of the economy and inflation, and though he is completely indefensible economically, these were the significantly harder group to convince. If you want to go bring me some numbers as to why you’re right feel free, but so far ALL anecdotal and empirical evidence that I’ve seen shows Gaza not to have been a big issue this election.
I didn’t say they were the entire gap. I said I’m pretty sure you can find 2 more percentage points of Gen Z men in that 13 million. And it’s obviously the biggest issue. We were bombarded with polls showing it was a big issue. It’s the only issue on which they had protest camps setup and barricaded their schools. Saying they had the same concerns as Millennials and Gen X is just ridiculous.
Your anecdotal evidence is not empirical.
L like
Pronounced “yike” as in Spanish. This is called eliding.
It really isn’t leftists’ fault, though. Trump easily won the popular vote and flipped georgia, pennsylvania, and wisconsin from their dem vote in 2020. Low voter turnout/voter suppression are the real culprits - along with dems failing to do almost any of the things that could’ve changed this outcome. Leftist memes did not lose dems the election. Voter apathy and the sheer popularity of fascism did.
There’s a million reasons people have given me for voting Trump, none of them rational. But the classic tropes of fear and disgust won out again. I’m old enough to remember the 2004 election, then it was gay people. Now it’s trans people and dark-skinned migrants. I really didn’t think those old tropes would work this time, but it just keeps working. Americans will just keep falling for it, apparently.
While it’s depressing that we’re reminded of the power of dumb at hateful people yet again, we should remember that nothing actually changed in that regard this election. We’re just discovering what’s always been there beneath the surface. I don’t think the malaise we’re feeling now is so much about what Trump will do - sure scores of people will die from bad policy, but that’s nothing new. Rather, we’re upset about what this reveals about ourselves. But we shouldn’t be upset about the act of revelation, because it tells us what we need to fix.
To continue this thought, you might be interested to know how neuroscience tells us the brain works: In short, the unconscious mind decides and acts, and the conscious mind makes up stories about why. Quite often, the story is just wrong, or at least misguided. Those voters have a real reason that they don’t understand or won’t admit to themselves, and a million reasons that they give instead to explain it.
Yes, we need to drop the misconception that people rationally decide about much of anything, and learn about their real reasons.
Leftist memes did not lose dems the election. Voter apathy and the sheer popularity of fascism did.
I’m not necessarily attributing blame here, but I’m pretty sure that OP is suggesting that leftist memes helped lead to this apathy. Say what you will, Trump voters were excited for their candidate… somehow, despite the list of reasons not to being far too long to be listed here. But many on the left either were just lukewarm on her, just considered her the lesser of two evils, or were protest voting third party or abstaining for one reason or another, mostly over Palestine. And there were memes galore to make clear to everyone what the general mood was. It doesn’t exactly inspire enthusiasm to those that need that a lot of enthusiasm to even bother (those people are frustrating, btw). I don’t know how much it actually contributed to or propogated the apathy versus how much it just reflected the apathy already there, but a case could be made either way.
Kamala isn’t on the left. The democrats aren’t on the left. This is a false dichotomy. They’re all capitalists. You can’t be on the left and be a capitalist, so leftists had many more disagreements with Kamala than Palestine.
Now, if you want to look at a great analysis of fascism and the false dichotomy in American politics, read Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti.
It is on the candidate to inspire people. Yeah, the left was lukewarm to a candidate that was trying her best to court Republicans. How else could you expect that to play out?
They didn’t lead to the apathy - they pointed out the existing apathy would cost Dems the election. It’s like saying the person who said you need to wear a seatbelt caused the wreck.
You’re exactly right about people being excited for Trump and lukewarm on Harris, but that’s entirely on the Democrats for picking the platform and strategy that lost to Trump in 2016.
Harris had a notable and surprising lead when they announced Biden was out - then they changed nothing else. People didn’t just not like the candidate, they didn’t like the policies. They only changed the candidate and thought Trump was a big enough cudgel to bully people into voting even though that demonstrably doesn’t work.
thought Trump was a big enough cudgel to bully people into voting even though that demonstrably doesn’t work.
What kinda ass country is this?
Oh boy, if you haven’t, read its history. Its real history. Wild stuff.
Why do you think the turnout was so low? Millions of idiots were pressuring people to withhold their vote over Palestine in a colossal self-fuck. That is if you assume these people spreading that are really that stupid. Some were, but I think a large percentage were paid trolls. And their campaigning worked. Russia owns the United States now
I see, so in order to save “democracy” people should have supported Genocide.
Honeslty maybe the Democrats should have seen this coming to themselves for supporting, and I will repeat it once more in case you don’t understand, GENOCIDE.
Imagine voting for 100% Hitler because another guy could be 150% Hitler.
I’m on this kick of pointing out that the utilitarian ethical calculation still works with 100% Hitler and 100.1% Hitler. Harm minimization, baby!
You’ve saved them all with your very logical and ethical defense. Bulletproof. Definitely not the case that you helped the slaughter intensify.
So by your logic, in Nazi Germany, you would have supported Hitler if there was another guy that was even worse than him ?
Do you even have a red line or can politicians just screw you over indefinitely for as long as there is someone worse !?
Also if the Democrats really wanted to win this elections, they would have run a different candidate that the one that is supervising Gaza right now !
You can also go back and see that people said in a lot of pools that they saw the economy as a big issue for them. If the average person in America sees that their economic situation is getting worse with Biden and wants change, you don’t run his VP for president !
The Democrats don’t care about you and they don’t care about winning. They are funded by the same billioners that fund the Republicans. They just want to kill minorities and cut taxes for the rich as much as Republicans but they don’t say it as clearly.
The Democrats are just controlled opposition that takes away votes from the non-fascist parties in the US.
By your logic, you would sit on a high horse while claiming to care about someone murdered in front of you. Wait, shit, that’s what you actually did. Blocking you now, thanks for the block request.
Apparently sacrificing all Palestinians is not a red line for you and the Democratic party cannot be held accountable for what it is doing right now.
Honestly you are just a fascist. No other word is needed to describe you.
Leftists have to sacrifice everything and agree to fascism so your favorite fascist party of choise doesn’t loose. This time around it didn’t work, the other fascist party won, tough luck.
Another contributor to low turnout was massive voter suppression. It’d be interesting to see that quantified. Hundreds of thousands of voters were being purged in each of several states. The single-issue Gaza vote was lost in the noise of those gross examples of electoral manipulation.
I’m sure you’re right. It’s hard to know where to focus the blame most, but I am livid that this country is worse than my worst fears. On a certain level I am losing any desire to even care specifically how/why. I wouldn’t have considered not voting before this but now I honestly am 99.9% of the way to saying fuck it all.
Only 10% of the electorate even cared about Gaza. You’re giving the American people entirely too much credit.
I don’t know what point you think you’re making, but after yesterday I give the American people zero credit. Millions of voters stayed home pretending it was about gaza. It’s not my job to psychoanalyze them but I do know their actions contradicted their stated goal and that makes them frauds.
Yeah there are only so many times Biden can go “hey isreal, you’d better stop that genocide or else!” While doing nothing whatsoever and even giving them the weapons to continue the genocide before people go “well they aren’t going to do a damn thing about this”
and that’s why I voted trump! /s
I’m not supporting that idea nor voter apathy. But i can certainly understand why Kamala lost Michigan, Dearborn has the largest muslim population in the country. I can understand why so many people there might be apathetic or uninterested in voting for a party that has put forth no pushback or even plans to stop an ongoing genocide against people of their faith.
Again, Trump will absolutely be far worse by just greenlighting isreal.
Again, Trump will absolutely be far worseby just greenlighting isreal.
The aim of a genocide is the same whether there’s someone with a blue tie approving it or a red tie approving it. Israel wants to displace or kill every Palestinian and break their culture and heritage.
That’s what genocide is. You can’t get worse than that, and that’s what’s happening.
Trump will absolutely be far worse by just greenlighting isreal.
Something every human had the means to see coming. They just either didn’t care or plugged their eyes and ears to it.
Yep! Why didn’t they vote ?! Why didn’t they choose the genocide eneblers, it’s only been 1 yearsince it started!! Those abstinent peaple are surely responsible for what Trump gonna do. But the Kamalla voters aren’t responcible for it. They are the right choise !!!
Sounds like you would’ve proudly watched the Palestinians be slaughtered, knowing you could’ve helped, but would relish the fact that you did not.
I’m not disagreeing with you. All I’m saying is that I understand why say a Palistinian American might be adverse to voting for the side actively faning the flames to a genocide including their own family members. I can imagine waking up and being told you should vote for the side that supplied the bombs that exploded half your family and going “why? So the other half can also get bombed? My whole family is going to die either way” and that being their rational for not voting.
Wh vote for the side that didn’t interfere when someone else bombed your family, when you can help elect someone who will encourage them to bomb every living relative too
Do you feel better up on your high horse?
It can’t possibly be because that’s a real concern. They had to be paid actors. You sound like Infowars after a school shooting.
yeah because cambridge analytica was also a hoax
Are you seriously comparing a fucking genocide to an info op?
Go away, person who purposely helped Trump.
You still don’t get it do you? Blaming the people you need to persuade is not a winning strategy. They aren’t going to magically like you suddenly.
Holding people accountable for their actions that affect you is an entirely just and necessary thing to do.
In their own words, “facts don’t care about your feelings”.
What’s the point in playing nice with somebody who won’t engage in good faith?
America is a lost cause and you’re an example of that
If Harris had campaigned on the issues she would have had so many Republican women jump ship. Just look at how many of them voted for abortion in Missouri.
I distinctly remember hearing about unusually high voter turnout.
It just wasn’t blue voters.
It wasn’t ‘voter apathy’ it was a misplaced sense of voter moral superiority. It’s the thing leftist rhetoric has been weak to for a very long time. That love of withholding support except for perfection. The idea that compromise or chosing a lesser evil from two bad options dirties you. It doesn’t matter what you lost if you personally took “the high ground”.
This cutting of our noses to spite our face was exploited all to shit this election. They lulled people by appealing to the same zeal of righteousness that they know divides us fundamentally knowing that when push comes to shove people will turn up their noses on principle of not being personally catered to and forget that their ability to help at all is contingent on the freedoms that one party was explicitly putting on the chopping block.
It will be a while before people can admit that they were duped and there’s a lot of fault to go around, particularly in those funded astroturf campaigns designed to bait the hook… The right have been watching us for the past decade they knew how to divide us and it is on US that so many of us fell for it.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about
You really think the 15 million people who voted for Biden but not Kamala was “misplaced sense of moral superiority”? Why?
Because that explanation makes them feel better
You forgot about PISSING AWAY THE EMCUMBANT ADVANTAGE
I was saying that before Joe step down and oh look, I was right. Now I having crippling depression and I need to put myself on suicide watch.
Do you remember the number on this “incumbent advantage”? The establishment didn’t just switch out Biden on a whim. Biden literally fucked his chances at winning at the debate. You are barking up the wrong tree
Shut the fuck up. When you have advantages you fucking use all of win and ensure the win. We didn’t use all of them and we lost. Simple as so instead of giving your fucking useless opinion to me, go hunker down like everyone else and tell your trans and ltgbq+ “I’m sorry”
Biden was never going to win. He is actively losing his marbles. It was so painfully obvious even Democrats had to accept it.
Yes incumbent advantage is real, but Biden had so many other disadvantages that he’d have never won.
It sucks but it is what it is.
Biden was never going to win. He is actively losing his marbles. It was so painfully obvious even Democrats had to accept it.
And yet now everyone has to pretend that a single coherent thought comes out of Trumps mouth in any given 5 minutes.
Did I say I’m happy about trump either? No. It just is what it is. The democrat party knew that pushing for Biden last election had a chance for this to happen.
Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime?
Sure, it makes for a great lens. You can use it to read the writing on the wall.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought what you were saying is that you can somehow magically know all possible realities for sure despite that being impossible. My bad.
It is an advantage useful when it’s not enough to win? Do you not remember the numbers at the time?! For all the pro genocide and ignoring of his base, going on TV and having a senior moment for an hour ended all discussion on the matter. The fact that the internal fighting in its aftermath is proof that Biden did not have the confidence of his base. Harris is the current vice president, if you wanted an incumbent advantage that it’s what you had. And to argue that “burden would have won i told you so!” Is to argue from ignorance. You don’t know, and all evidence pointed to it not being so.
I mean, if they really really really wanted that incumbent advantage, Biden could have stepped out.
That’s the fun thing is WE DONT KNOW AND WONT GET TO FIND OUT ANYMORE. You act like it was all said and over but you don’t actually fucking know. Because if you did you would have the ability to see the future and wouldn’t be carrying on about this topic. But here we are, you not able to see the future and me pointing out that we don’t know until we find out. Well now we lost. Good fucking job.
What i do know is that confidence in Biden was in the shitter. Wile republicans have never had any consideration about trumps mental decline as long as he was their monster, left wing voters are fractional based on attaining left ideals, of which Biden did not achieve. Add on to that where Biden was in Obvious decline, it’s no wonder that there was infighting on his viability. The fact that there was even a discussion means that the incumbency was worth fuck and all.
You should be angry but all evidence points to your “i told you so!” Is incorrect. Trump won the popular vote, end of.
Encumbant advantage? In this economic climate, it’s exactly the opposite. People who are feeling increasingly fed up with a world in which they cannot make ends meet vote against the status quo.
4 years of Trump got people to vote against Trump. 4 years of Biden got people to vote against his VP.
Biden himself would lost even harder than Kamala did.
And where do you buy your crystal ball that proves you right?
Oh? You don’t have one? Then you don’t know and you’re speculating that Biden would have lost. We wouldn’t have known until we knew but now we never will and we all lost. I can’t wait to get hunted down for not being a white Christian man all because
bIdEn WoUlD hAvE lOsT
If you actually think you will get hunted down…buy a goddamn gun. Take classes, carry every day. Arm yourself and your friends.
I’m basing my analysis on the observable trend that incumbents lose when the economy is poor. As well as, y’know, Biden’s abysmal poll numbers after the debate, the reason he dropped out in the first place.
You’re the one who started insisting incumbent advantage would’ve been a thing here, where’s your crystal ball?
Poll numbers:
Every president since we’ve started recording the “what’s your impression of how the president is doing” has a slump in polls. Biden’s slump isn’t even historic. It’s typical, average. Go look at some numbers before you decide to have an opinion.
Emcumbant Advantage:
Please screenshot where I said “Biden would have won”. I won’t wait because I didn’t. I said it was an advantage and when you fight in anything you maximize every advantage you have. You do everything you can to win. It does not garuntee a win but it shores up your odds. The strategy we used was to instead shoot ourselves in the leg and try to gobble to the finish line. So again shut the fuck up until you have a thought actually worth more than the bullshit headlines of whatever fucking rag you are passing off as your opinion you stupid fuck
If you want to “do everything you can to win”, step one is not running the guy who was borderline incoherent in the debates. Staying by that would’ve been shooting yourself in the leg.
Did we watch the same debate here? There was never any advantage coming out of that one.
Borderline incoherent, clearly that’s wrong because grandpa rantsalot is now our president.
Please don’t kill yourself. We need you for the revolution. Doesn’t matter who you are, what your skills are. If you can hold a gun or make soup, we need you.
Just say the word
Communism?
Hey, I know you don’t know me, but I want you to know that depriving us of what you can bring will only make it worse. I’ve found that I can keep myself alive by living for the people around me. Right now what’s keeping me going is touching base with everyone, seeing how they’re doing, asking them if they’ve made any plans, and telling them about my plans to move forward. Direct action just got a whole lot harder and more dangerous, but giving up now only makes the problem worse. One foot in front of the other, until you get the rhythm, Then follow it. I believe in you.
I appreciate it.
Fortunately I’m recognizing the signs and taking early measures. Trying to find a shrink and decide if I should move.
If you’re able to move and see a Dr you’re doing better than most.
I was suicidal for other reasons and found my way out of the hole I dug myself in. I honestly hope you can too. It sounds like you’re a passionate person and you can place that passion somewhere that does good for the world.
Thanks electing Trump, Uncommitteds. Enjoy watching Gaza burn and Ukraine turn into Russia.
If the Lemmy mods hasn’t censored all the posts that disputed the characterization of the war in Gaza as a genocide, I’d feel bad.
But the radical left simply cannot withstand anyone questioning their antisemitic world view.
Maybe you can trade places with a Palestinian getting genocided right now and see how smug you are then.
Zionists are something else.
?
Why would I want to trade places with a terrorist?
It’ll be a genocide soon enough.
Thank you for finally providing a sane take, here on Lemmy.
And disabled folks, and veterans, and naturalized citizens…
