cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/35684522
Despite his support for Trump, Ragland has become increasingly vocal about the need for immediate trade resolution. “We desperately need to get something rectified quickly with China, our biggest export customer,” he told CNN. “We wanna encourage the administration to get a proactive trade deal done.”
Don’t worry, JD Vance will buy your farm after you go broke.
“Best I can do is a spit in your face”
Have they tried budgeting or making coffee at home?
If they grow avocados and wheat, they can make their own toast!
Grow avocados!? In this economy!?
in this climate, us isnt designed to grow avocados or coffee. citruses are limited to cali and maybe florida.
Before 2016. Florida was the leading state for oranges. California and Texas both grow more now. Florida production has been dropping.
They’ll grow it right next to dads injection of 100,000 dollars to my new starter home.
Maybe they can just not eat T-bone steak and not buy the new iPhone.
But it’s orange! Like their god!
Or buy domestically produced iPhone.
Don’t any of these people have bootstraps?!
Does anybody remember the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the trade agreement President Obama entered into, that would have opened the Asian markets to American farm products? The agreement that the Republicans ripped up when Trump started his first term?
That was one of the good things Mango Mussolini did for the rest of the world. The original TPP was an attempt to export the US copyright regime. After Trump pulled the US out, the rest ripped out the copyright shit the corporate scum wanted and went ahead.
Liberals become wishy washy and lose elections
Let GOP get in charge
GOP destroys the export economy
Americans are all now forced to eat mointains of feminizing soy
The secret long term plot against conservatives to turn them all gay and trans is almost complete!
Soy is not feminizing. Plant estrogens are not mammal estrogen. You have to actually take estrogen. It’s really inconvenient.
Oh I know, the soy thing is a stupid meme pushed by right wingers. See also “Soy Boy” and “Soy Face.”
You are correct but it’s a common right wing myth. The Soy Boy diet making men wimpy girls was super common on right wing media.
I hate how the fucking conservatives have turned it into a talking point. Soy makes me pee out my butt, but if I’m too loud about avoiding soy, people assume I’m scared of the phytoestrogens.
It’s also a myth that appears in trans communities on occasion. The right wing misogynist to trans-girl pipeline is alive and well.
Yeah the soy myth was based on single flawed and debunked study from the 1940s or 50s. Plenty of further research proves their shit wrong in every way.
Nearly all studies cited by right wingers are really old and debunked. They cherry pick to the one thing they can find that supports their views.
Maybe it’s a plot by the GOP! The GOP wants to turn all your kids trans!
its a plot to give all males bigger boobs than Donald.
Big bra are at it again.
Big Bra realized they can double sales if they make all men into women. Why hasn’t anyone looked into this?
Big Brossiere
This is the Find Out stage.
Keep voting red you stupid fuckers.
I can’t wrap my head around how some of them can be so hateful and intolerant when they are the true soy boys.
Projection. Always, every single damn time, it’s projection.
the only version of reality they know is on fox news, newsmax, the joe rogan experience, and am radio.
this war has been coming. they’ve even known its coming. but they understand it to be solely at the feet of the chinese state manipulating the markets. they think, because it’s the only perspective they’ve ever been exposed to, 47 to be a big strong power daddy standing up to those bullies.
it has never occurred to them that the great imperial powers, russia, china, the anglosphere, are engaged in a centuries long stalemate. one that benefits no one but the people at the top. their big power daddy is not their savior, but their antichrist. their pharaoh, caesar, king, and overseer. he hates them and will make them suffer.
and i hate everyone in this thread thinking laughing at them is the play here. they turn to their churches because their churches promise to help them and accept them. i’m sick of this performative leftist bullshit. things don’t get better by shaming the morons, they get better by feeding them and showing them another way. through galvanizing them against all our opressors. yeah, some are so twisted with hate you can never help them, but by not even trying to bring them to our way of seeing things you’re repeating all of the same mistakes that created a malicious and uninformed public in germany that cranked out adolf eichmanns.
don’t be like israelis blaming this genocide on an evil race of tormentors. be like hannah arendt blaming it on a system of manipulation of what right and wrong even is
they turn to their churches because their churches promise to help them and accept them
Which just doubles down on the stupid. There is a differnce between ignorance and deliberate ignorance. There is no excuse for deliberate ignorance in the developed world. They can read Al Jazeera (picks random other news source) easily for example.
Also seems odd to invoke Ardent, her being a refugee immigrant .
i know it doubles down on the stupid. it’s why we have to resist that march to darkness with everything we have. people are simple creatures. they go where they feel their needs are met. it’s why the unions of the early 1900s set up soup kitchens and the salvation army fought street battles to shut those soup kitchens down. i’m not asking that people not see these morons as ignorant, i’m asking people to realize this leftist echo chamber behavior makes them less effective propagandists when they go out and hit the streets.
do you know what i’ve noticed in my time protesting of late? there has been an increase in tankies showing up places advocating for authoritarianism, but not their authoritarianism, our authoritarianism, as if authoritarianism can ever lead to anything good. and the ignorant masses see that and think it’s who the left is and they turn away from us even though the the vast majority of leftists are advocating against the authority of monetary and military might, and want that authority distributed to the masses.
i’m just asking people here to think about how to make effective propaganda that doesn’t just preach to the choir, but entices new people that we have something different to offer than the things they’re escaping. there’s a theology of food and liquor. the idea is that god made food, and the devil made liquor. on the face of it, god seems like our ally for this and the devil our enemy. but god uses the food to control us through his authority, and the devil helps us survive until tomorrow by soothing the pain of our subjugation. the most dangerous food is the low quality stuff the authority makes readily available that’s low in nutritional quality. the most dangerous liquor is the church. if you want to help people remove themselves from the bondage of this society you have to perform some acts of self sacrifice and share some of your food with them as keep them away from the dangerous liquors like the church, opioids, and booze.
how do we keep people from the dangerous liquors? by understanding why they turn to them. they are in pain. they need hope. hope is the safest liquor, and after the devil realized that god was a slave driver, it’s the liquor he focused on giving the people, but the damage done by his original liquors is hard to combat. in order to give people hope, you have to speak in terms they understand, you need a unifying strategy that they care about. right now, that’s the epstein files. a lot of the left and the right working class people think there’s a conspiracy of the elite to participate in a vast sex trafficking network. that’s why we’ve been so focused on not letting any distraction work.
as for why i cited hannah arendt: i don’t think her being an immigrant detracts from my point. i don’t think immigrants are intrinsically different from us, nor do i think any nationstate is intrinsically different from another. it was nazi germany in the 1930s, it’s the united states today. if we don’t educate the children and show them how to build a better world it will be whatever new power emerges 20 years from now after another 60 years. hannah arendt’s insights that all of these horrible things happen over and over again with a great deal of consistency and the only cure is patient education are extremely valuable. yes, we lack the time to do patient education if everyone is to survive. a degree of wielding violence in the name of community defense is necessary. but treating the pain of the ignorant will not help you. denouncing the people who cause this pain will.
remember, the greatest illusion of all is the illusion of separation. authorities of every kind have used this illusion to prevent solidarity amongst the working classes since the beginning of written history. our path to liberation from this scheme involves realizing the propaganda works, and that if we want to help people escape the propaganda that’s programmed them, we have to produce propaganda for them that will deprogram them. to do this we can’t go to our echo chambers and yuk it up at their expense. our disdain for them that we foment in our echo chambers will leak out and ruin the whole thing.
and no, i’m not asking you to accept transphobes like someone else said. i’m asking you to stop accepting the things you cannot change and work more to change the things you cannot accept. almost everyone here had to go on a journey to get to the position they now are in. think back on the person you were before you saw the world for what it is. what changed you? for me, it was people in my life telling me i wasn’t seeing the whole picture. it took time, but eventually i got it. that there is any leftist thought that exists in our sea of right wing propaganda indicates that people’s minds can be changed and improved upon. but you have to be considered about how you do it. don’t play the right’s us vs them game. they want you to play it. that’s their entire goal: make us seem unreasonable to the people in their thrall.
Laughing at them is the only play. They will not listen to us no matter what. They deserve this, and while it sucks for the rest of us too, we might as well enjoy their suffering since they puposfully did this to us. The US is on a path to crash and burn, and the faster it does so, the sooner we can maybe start building something good again.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/16301276
How do you square these two things?
Please explain
In the above post you state it’s OK to laugh because the farmers purposefully elected Trump, leading to a (predictable) trade war and suffering.
In the linked post you explain that Palestinians in Gaza mostly support the attacks on Israel.
Should the starvation and attacks the Palestinians suffer then be ridiculed because “they deserve it”?
Fair point. In this case, the adults who voted for Trump may go bankrupt, but they nor their families will starve, ironically because of the social programs they are also likely opposed to. In Gaza, even the adults have less access to education that might give them a chance of critical thinking, and the children are dying. That’s not funny in any way. So I suppose it’s a matter of degrees, but it’s such a different degree that it’s hard for me to see it as similar.
Web activism does nothing and if people here aren’t laughing at them the algorithms will still find the one guy who is and present that person to right wingers.
Whatever you think you’re accomplishing by advocating self censorship, you are naively assuming the right wing media won’t fabricate these narratives whole cloth.
The “school kitty litter” stuff peddled by Rogan is a perfect example of “however nice you are to the right, they will be shown whatever upsets them the most (even if its completely fake) and you will be blamed for it.”
You’re performing a song and dance for people who aren’t in this thread. If the goal was to join them at being laughing stocks, you succeeded.
I have no intention to accept people that refuses to accept me.
That they go low we go high attitude does not work.
I say let them reap what they sow.
and i hate everyone in this thread thinking laughing at them is the play here. they turn to their churches because their churches promise to help them and accept them. i’m sick of this performative leftist bullshit. things don’t get better by shaming the morons, they get better by feeding them and showing them another way. through galvanizing them against all our opressors.
There’s a vast difference between mocking people in an echo chamber and doing it directly to their faces. You’re right that mocking someone never changed their mind, but as far as I’ve read the only thing that moves the needle, especially for people in a cult, is a close personal connection helping them. Internet comments are never going to change anything, so I say mock the poor dumbasses voting to shoot themselves in the foot (at best), or unempathetic racist shitheads (more likely), because it makes my day a little better at least.
No choice now…
Well, they did fuck around…
We literally told this exact same guy that in 2017.
a lot of farmers are capitalists, its not a stretch to say a lot of them financed it and actually made trump happen.
if only these people only had a vote to influence politics.
It’s not a dire situation for the people who want his land.
Yeah exactly. Big agribusiness will scoop these family farms up at very cheap prices. Follow the money.
Oh no! If only there had been some way for farmers to know this was going to happen! Like Trump telling them it was going to happen! Or every economist in the country warning it was going to happen! Or Trump doing the same thing in his first term! WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN???
It still amazes me that they are surprised. They lived through it the first time. It wasn’t fake news It was their own reality.
Trump had no control, deep state did it obvs /s
Yeah it was because of Biden / Kamala first time and now.
Thanks Obama!
And if it wasn’t their fault then both sides are the same!
/s
They will vote for him again.
If only there had been some way for farmers to know this was going to happen
Midwestern Dems are sprinkled with nativist, anti-China, police gimp politicians that overwhelmed their GOP colleagues. So it’s sort of a crap shoot. You might get a Tim Walz or you might get a Pete Buttigieg or you might get a Terri Sewell.
Just “Vote Blue No Matter Who” isn’t a panacea. Not when so many Dems are cuddling up to the Cheney and Bloomberg brand of Republicanism, even as they fervently reject Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib
WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN???
Biden had four years to reverse Trump policies, rebuild ties with our largest trading partners, and prosecute the corrupt officials in the prior administration.
Instead, he continued the War on Migrants, tried to shut down TikTok while flooding Israel with cheap munitions, and gave a DOJ sized shrug to fascists big and small.
These decisions cost his party 6M votes between 2020 and 2024.
Yeah dude, this is Biden’s fault. 🙄
🤷 Neville Chamberlain Democrats definitely played their part.
I thought “blue no matter who” was a call for the general election because at the federal level the alternative is the republican.
Then to change the direction of the party you have to be involved far ahead of the election in the candidate suction process.
… not that they’re necessarily going to listen. The forced two party thing we have going will probably always corrupt the “good” party if there is one.
I thought “blue no matter who” was a call for the general election because at the federal level the alternative is the republican.
If you’re supporting reactionaries in your own party, you’re not opposing Republicans at the national level.
Bullshit. In this case our reality is so twisted that this is the time to vote blue, no matter who. Anti-fascist, no matter who. Least unethical, no matter who.
I look forward to the day when all major candidates are not channeling evil supervillains, who care about their constituents (not just enriching their friends and corporate benefactors) and can articulate a platform toward their concept. I look forward to the day we can relate to “both sides” again, to the day we can debate the merits of different proposals. I too wish for that utopia where it’s reasonable to choose on who has the best plan.
In the meantime it’s just not ok
In this case our reality is so twisted that this is the time to vote blue, no matter who.
That’s how you end up with a Congress and President who continues to pander to fascism from the liberal side of the aisle.
We played the “Vote Blue” game with Biden and he pooched it. Burned another generational opportunity for reform so he could placate his friends in Israel and Wall Street.
I look forward to the day when all major candidates are not channeling evil supervillains
You can’t look forward to it. You have to champion it. That means actively opposing Democrats who are complicit in the horror.
In the meantime it’s just not ok
This is the mentality that continues to propel Andrew Cuomo’s campaign.
They can always blame Biden (Joe or Hunter), Obama, or trans people! 🤡🤡🤡🤡
True maybe the sales orders are in Hunter’s laptop. That’s why they wanted it so bad.
Or just blame China directly and call this an act of war.
Attack Venezuela! That will solve it!
Or Greenland.
If we reclaim Panama we can deny Chinese shipping until they decide to play nice. Simple!
It’s so ridiculous they would blame trans people when theyre SOYBEAN farmers.
I thought they’d want more soyboys to exist to consume their product.
I feel bad for the leopards at this stage. Overeating isn’t good for you. :)
The leopards are getting diabetes and insurance wants to charge them $1200 a month for insulin until their deductible is met.
Poor guy…
I was about to suggest that maybe not all farmers voted for trump and thus they may not deserve the financial hardship, then I read this
"Despite his support for Trump, Ragland has become increasingly vocal about the need for immediate trade resolution. “We desperately need to get something rectified quickly with China, our biggest export customer,” he told CNN. “We wanna encourage the administration to get a proactive trade deal done.”
lol, gfy.
Every fucking time it’s, “the administration just needs to hear my argument, and they will realize this is a mistake and correct the oversight.”
Like dude, they know exactly what they’re doing.
How do these people not know who Donald Trump is yet, after all of this time?
Among owners of farms its a massive overwhelming majority. Just farming dependant counties as a whole was 78% and the owners expected massive tax breaks
I also have been feeling schaedenfreud but its not all their fault. They may have voted for trump but that was mainly because they were misled by propaganda networks. It shows how bad reporting is particularly among the rustbelt propaganda networks.Because none of these people were aware about project twenty twenty five which pretty much promised to crush trade.
If they had been presented with accurate reporting there’s no way they would have voted against the pro trade neo liberals.
Our legal and political system enabled a group of plutocrats to falsify reporting and amplify russian disinformation campaigns.
Except that Trump has said enough stupid shit in obvious places that it can’t be hidden unless you’ve got a chokehold that is simply impossible to maintain on that many people. Ten million maybe, but no at this point they’re willing. They want this and whether they’re profoundly stupid or incredibly evil doesn’t much matter like it used to considering the damage they’re doing.
Conservatives just suck. The world at their fingertips and daily, unavoidable examples of why they’re super wrong and they still go hard for the worst possible options because they aren’t intelligent enough to understand even the most basic complexities or have even shreds of empathy for people they can’t directly see(and many will even hate those right in front of them). Nah dude, fuck that.
All that is true, but the shit he’s saying goes through a filter. Not just the filter of Fox News but also the filter of those who disseminate that bullshit.
A very sad and unfortunate fact about most Americans is that they do not read the news and most of their political knowledge comes from their friends and family or communities. The propaganda dissemination models that are currently driving the US toward fascism are reliant on there being a core group of malignants who disseminate the disinformation that they get from Fox, AM radio and elsewhere.
The group whom you’re referring to as “conservatives” are demographically the most exposed to right-wing propaganda. The so-called “average” cluster, as revealed by the Cambridge Analytica scandal. This group (originally targeted by Facebook) is particularly sensitive to the message pushed by conservatives (“law and order”, “traditional”). But if you look at the messaging that’s being used to manipulate them, it’s the same stuff that was used to target Germans in the Weimar republic.
Honestly, the conservatives I have both the least and greatest problems with are the ones who don’t really pay attention any news in particular. They heard once that conservatives are good with money and that progressives have funny ideas and they’ve latched onto that idea with ever challenging it once. They’re simply incapable of looking at something deeper than surface level and they refuse to address the complexity of any given situation. Those people will, at times, end up as centrists who “really don’t like to get into politics” and “think they have cool ideas but they could never get them done”.
This doesn’t much go against my original point, though. They exist in a place where they hate learning and changing their ideas is not something they can really handle. If all they have to do is fit one mold then that’s easy, but once they have to start custom-building their own personality it all falls apart. It’s too much work for them, and they retreat to comfortable familiarity.
People have been screaming for decades how shitty GOP and Conservative/Libertarian policies are, with proper backed examples and data.
These people still didn’t listen.
They chose this.
They were told this would happen, plainly enough for a child to understand, and they chose it anyway.
I’ve actually heard someone make the argument that it’s liberals’ fault because they came across as patronizing when telling people, which made them not want to listen. I wish I was kidding.
Just zero personal responsibility.
Youre right that they should have known better but you cant blame fools for being fools. You can blame the conmen who scam them.
I monitor conservative and nationalist media and they promote lies all day long. The people screaming about whats going on? Completely misrepresented or marginalized in their coverage. Its impossible to have democracy with propaganda networks ranking number 1 in the public consciousness
About half of the customers for my seasonal business are farmers. I told them directly. They didn’t believe me or didn’t care.
Now they have crops rotting in the fields.
Many farmers don’t read the news and they are prone to getting their info from their friends and communities. For whatever reason, around 30% of the people in those communities are unempathetic deceivers who delight in spreading lies and conspiracy theories. And propaganda networks empower those people.
I told them. They knew. They thought they were special.
Guess they should have listened to their vendor instead of their competition.
I warned conservatives too but are they going to trust someone they know a little or someone they know a lot? The same thing happened with Bush. People form their beliefs based on their communities and families.
My view is that if conservative media could be held liable in civil court for passing off information they knew to be false then every single propaganda network could have been sued off the air and internet by their own audiences.
I agree. It’s fraud & should be actionable.
What are they saying to you now about it?
Let me guess, they’re strangely silent.
I’ve not started taking orders for this season. Have to start this month. Kinda dreading it THB.
That excuse is unacceptable.
Unless you think they are dumber than normal they have all the possibility to verify sources and take the effort to look stuff up if it’s of importance.
They’re not 1930’s illiterate Germans who had to believe what they’ve been told.Decades of defunding and stripping down public education is now bearing fruit. We can thank right-wing political interests from both parties for the death of the US educational system. But this is what led to an overreliance on video as a news dissemination platform as people do not read much compared to other economies.
Weimar Germany, by the way, was the best educated country in the world in the thirties. This is what made Nazi propaganda more effective: they were able to use propaganda campaigns to target vulnerable populations. We now know from Cambridge Analytica that this group exists in all cultures. The so-called “Average” group.
Being ignorant doesn’t excuse their actions, but it explains their motives in a way that makes them more human. We’re all fallible, some of us more so than others. Look at it this way: it’s not a crime to be completely cut off from good news sources. There’s nothing evil in getting all your news from your church buddies or the people at work. Most news is negative anyway so people naturally avoid it.
The people who control those groups are horrible human beings. Narcissistic, sadistic, nihilists. Unfortunately, liberal democracy does nothing to stop them from spreading their message to vulnerable groups.
It’s absolutely their fault are you fucking kidding me?
Many of them are horrible trolls. But then there are those who do not watch the news and get their facts from their local communities, like churches or co-workers. The great majority of people in the US do not have a good news source and have never had a class on media bias. Their whole way of thinking revolves around obeying authority. That environment does not encourage independent thought. And in the presence of 24/7 propaganda networks (Facebook, AM radio, Cable News), there’s no way for them to get substantiative information on topics relevant to their daily lives. It’s not just right wingers, but also people who would normally be on the left politically, but who are instead overwhelmed with data on how vaccines cause autism, etc… I meet people all the time who are concerned about my media consumption patterns because I do not know about how dangerous GMO is, or how my use of computers is rotting my brain.
The problem with modern information economies is not everyone has access to good information, even people who read the news all day long are exposed to Russian disinfo.
Farmers:
Votes for Trump
Loses business because of Tariff backlash
Gets bailed out
Votes for Trump two more times
Loses business because of Tariff backlash
Who could have seen this coming?
Them. They see your pattern continuing.
Imagine if the government paid you to sit on your ass instead of going to work.
And since your income is no longer tied to any sense of production, you fudge your number a little and end up better off being on welfare than working full time.
Maybe Monsanto or somebody might get bailed out, but smaller farmers won’t get a single penny out of the GOP.
We’re seeing that play out in Arkansas, as this year family farmers are either driven off their farms (some after 6 generations) or are committing suicide quickly. One of my friends knew a farmer that killed himself last night. They’re really thinking the feds are coming to save them, instead of forcing them off the land so it can be purchased by conglomerates.
Slow suicide is the worst though
I dunno. I’m kinda fond of drinking personally
“Small” farmers own millions in land and equipment. Mom and Pop farmers are essentially a myth at this point.
Incorrect, the banks own millions in land and equipment…
Most smaller farms are mortgaged out their asses.
Source: close friends with a family that owns a farm…
Listen, there are two ways things can be. A diverse set of farms with less than 100 acres total each, or entire regions of millions of acres dominated singularly by massive corporations.
Small farmers exist, and mom and pop farmers are very real, even if it is inherently quite exclusive.
During Trump’s last term when he fucked over soybean growers, at least locally in my rural community, the soybeans didn’t go to waste. They didn’t rot in the fields or in storage. However, farmers ended up having to sell for way less than normal, and basically they didn’t make any profit (many even saw losses) that year.
This issue with this year, again I can only speak to my area, is that by the time Trump was elected, most people would have already placed their orders for seed and the specific chemicals/supplies they needed for soy, so they’re on the hook for it. They would have been facing the decision to take a sure loss (ex: if they didn’t plant the soy they’ve already purchased and/or if they had to go procure some other crop seed and related supplies) OR they could go ahead as planned with the soy and hope for the best.
Where I live, most farmers aren’t “soy farmers”, they’re just farmers. They rotate crops from year to year on a pretty rigid schedule, so one year it’s soy, next might be corn, grains following that, then cover crop / hay. So, they better hope the weather holds up next year for whatever crop they were planning because I doubt a lot of them will be able to tolerate multiple years of essentially no profit.
