Take the invasive piece of shit tech out and make it not a Tesla and I’m in.
Pedal, brake, steering, heater/a/c, seats, roof, windshields. That’s all we need beyond the electric drive train.
I live in a shitty apartment - where the hell am I supposed to charge one, even if I could afford one? I’d love a hybrid though. Unfortunately I’m disabled in America, aka below the poverty line. I can’t afford jack shit.
The only reason I wouldn’t want an EV now is that they are insanely invasive spying smartphones on wheels. Not that conventional cars are much better. I hope my “next car” isn’t a car at all.
The only reason I wouldn’t want an EV now is that they are insanely invasive spying smartphones on wheels
Says the guy with an insanely invasive spying smartphone
I use GrapheneOS with no connected accounts, so no, that is not the guy saying it.
You could also be trapped inside while your vehicle is on fire. I want an EV, but the most of the men in my family have gone out via heart attack in our late 60s, I do not want to die trapped inside a car with lithium batteries while I’m slowly incinerated. I want working physical door handles.
Isn’t that only Tesla, though? Weird to generalize an entire industry based on the one that has the worst ratings, lowest reliability, and is run by a nazi.
Don’t look up how the Hyundai Ionic doesn’t illuminate the tail lights until the physical brakes engage, rather than regenerative braking. There is no mention of it in the NHTSA regulations. You could step on the brakes and someone can rear end you and that’s all fine. EVs in the US are so stupid. Just make an EV that’s affordable and doesn’t try to actively kill you.
Don’t look up how the Hyundai Ionic doesn’t illuminate the tail lights until the physical brakes engage
oh, too bad, I looked it up. you’re wrong. They even increased the sensitivity 3 years ago.
My apologies for being out of date.
I own an IONIQ 6 and can definitively confirm this is false. I’ve literally watched my break lights at night in the rear view mirror to confirm and understand how and when they work, and regenerative breaking absolutely lights up the break lights.
This isn’t true at all. I love Technology Connections, but Alec’s take on it is a bit misleading… They will illuminate under regen, but above a certain decel amount. This is intentional, because otherwise you’d have your indicators on constantly, so you have to set the threshold somewhere. Is it set maybe a little too high? There could be an argument for that, but saying they don’t illuminate unless the physical brakes engage is an outright falsehood.
Plenty of options on the market that aren’t Teslas.
So don’t buy a Tesla.
Exactly. I want an as basic as possible, unconnected car with physical buttons, knobs, and handles.
or
What cars are these images from? I wasn’t under the impression that Nissan made a car that wasn’t heavily “connected”, though I do appreciate the physical knobs/buttons/etc. What is the other vehicle?
they can also be bricked by an OTA update.
I have an EV in Europe and for my next car I’m seriously considering going back to ICE. I really like the car but the charging network is shit. Pretty much none if it accepts card payments, you have to give all your personal info to like 10 different operators to move around. The network looks fine on a map but when you’re actually trying to find a charger a lot of them are out of order. You can’t trust it so I always look for a backup but this really complicates planning trips and range anxiety is still a thing. If things don’t improve in the coming year I will just get a gasoline car and consider EV again some time in the future.
Yeah, I’d like to see so legislation that says public-facing EV chargers must accept payments at the charging site without additional fees or use of an app. Charging apps should be a quality of life thing, not a mandatory data scraping scheme.
EU has this legislation but so far operators just ignore it. I was thinking about filing non-compliance report to EC but I think at this point it will be counter productive. It looks like Spain is pushing operators to install those so it’s better if they spend money to finance this rather than on fines.
I’ve owned an EV for 5 years, and only now am I beginning to actually get over that range anxiety. I honestly like driving my EV, there is so little maintenance, and it has a range of about 300 km which is enough for me. But yeah, the charging stations are a huge hassle. There are so many of them that are marked as available on the map, and then when you get there they are either broken, occupied, or blocked by an ICE. Also, the apps and charging tags are driving me fucking nuts. I have so many different apps now, and a lot of them work like absolute shit. I also still run into weird issues where a cable will lock to my car, and then I have to call support or similar.
The things that make owning an EV nice, are things like free public parking in a lot of larger cities, and holy hell does it warm up quickly in the winter. I’m still probably going to buy an EV for my next car, I just hope it will be possible to buy a modern car without constant electronic nuisances like beeps, eye-tracking, subscription services, shitty touch screens, and all the other bullshit that they put in cars nowadays (Not just EV’s). Another reason I like my EV is the acceleration, I never have to worry when I overtake a slow vehicle.
There are so many of them that are marked as available on the map, and then when you get there they are either broken, occupied, or blocked by an ICE.
Plugshare has helped me a lot with finding charging stations. Searching local tow-truck businesses and calling the one with the shittiest reviews will help you with the other problem.
warm up quickly in the winter
That uses lots of energy from the battery though, doesn’t it? Unless you program the thermostat while it’s plugged in.
It has a built in heat pump, so it doesn’t use much. It’s unnoticeable actually, although models without one probably will drain a lot.
care payments
Does your health insurance cover mobility too?
/s yes I know it’s “card” but took a while
That was my experience renting an EV for a month in Sweden a few months ago. Charging stations everywhere, but 1/4 of them wouldn’t accept my payment methods (US and Swedish credit cards), 1/4 were too slow to be worthwhile and 1/4 didn’t work at all. Most of them required me to install an app on my phone to input my credit card details (really stupid). There were many times I needed to charge in an unfamiliar town and I had to try three charging stations before I found one that worked for me. Loved driving that car but I hated charging it.
Most of them required me to install an app on my phone to input my credit card details (really stupid).
This shit is the worst. I’ve stood on fucking empty dark parking lots, in the middle of freezing winter storms, with screaming kids in the car, for what feels like hours setting up absurdly complicated apps, that require so much bullshit information, only to find at the end of it that the charger didn’t work anyway.
This experience alone is enough for me to actually discourage a lot of people from buying an EV. These providers need to get their shit together, it’s absolutely horrible user experience.
In the 5 years I’ve owned an EV, things have gotten better, but the fact that this is still a common experience means that infrastructure just is not ready.
needing an app on your phone to do anything should be illegal. it should be optional but all meters should take cash or e payments w/o a phone
According to EU laws since 2024 every charger above 47kW/h has to accept card payment. This is being slowly rolled out. I know that Spain now offers financing for charging station operators to do the necessary changes. I already saw some stations modified to accept credit card. They also rolled out public website with a map of charging stations which is also a big improvement. It’s slowly moving in the right direction and EU definitely has a good idea about how it should work. That’s why I’m still split. I will see what happens this year.
that’s good news.
I have an idea to start scraping public data bout charger availability and provide some stats. Which operators are the least reliable, how long does it take to fix a charger on average, which chargers are broken most often and so on. This data in EU is public so it shouldn’t be that hard, I just have to finish another project first.
Blame das idiots at VW. Same problem in Canada with the Electrify network. If governments seriously want EVs, they need to get their thumbs out and treat charge infrastructure like they treated handicapped parking.
Overnight, under threat of real fines, handicapped parking was everywhere, and maintained.
In Spain the government straight out said that they don’t care about the network, that private companies should solve it. And they did, in the most corporate way possible, absolutely enshittified, terrible for users, great for profit. I really believe some of the companies keep their chargers as broken as possible to promote ICE cars.
EU passed some common sense laws (mandatory card payment, open APIs with availability info) but so far they were just ignored. There’s also mandatory chargers every 50km on some highways but the law was passed years ago and the Spanish government is just now planning to build 3 charging stations as a trial. And that’s the leftist government we’re talking about. I can’t wait what will happen when the right wing party takes over in a year or two.
It EV are supposed to be a tool to make as dependent on shitty corpos like Google (you need Android phone to use chargers) I don’t want it. But there’s still chance EU’s regulation will take effect and it will be usable. We’ll see.
In Spain the government straight out said that they don’t care about the network, that private companies should solve it.
They can still legislate minimum number charging stations in parking lots and fine for lack of function. Just use find and replace on handicap parking laws.
Chargers at parking lots are very common and it’s not the problem. When you’re driving on a highway you don’t want to go to a parking in the center of the city to charger there. You will loose 30-60 minutes just to get in and out of the town. Chargers are needed at service stations that are next to the highway. In places like that you usually can’t put a fast charger just like that, you first need to adapt the grid. So the grid operator has to do some work first. So it should be planned and coordinated so that the charging network grows in a way that makes sense. As far as I know this wasn’t done.
Probably because Americans aren’t given access to any of the good cheap electric cars that everyone else is getting.
If you told them they could get one for like $15k I bet that number would change REAL fast.
But what if instead of 15k small sedan/hatch you could have a 50k (base) SUV that looks like a brick and needs twice the battery to go the same distance?
Thanks to Rivian, we already have that covered!
Lol, starting price of around $78k.
I guess I’m keeping my f350 running for another 27 years… give me something I can afford that meets my needs. I hate driving the truck without the trailer but I can’t afford a 50k suv that won’t even do the job of my truck. Besides I miss the way my last sedan handled and want another, but again I can’t justify 40k, but maybe 20k
edit - and just a few hours latter the fuel tank fell off and there isn’t enough unrusted metal to reattach it. I don’t have time for that much body work so it is gone. :(
I mean you can’t get a gas car for $15k either.
Right. EVs are CHEAPER than gas cars everywhere else. That’s why they are selling so well.
They’re not cheaper, they’re just heavily subsidized.
Gasoline is subsidized.
No one is talking about gasoline. We’re talking about the price to purchase the vehicle.
So?
So what?
So are regular cars… EV being subsidized just levels the playfield
What are “regular cars” and how are they subsidized?
They are cheaper to manufacture in the long run though. Less parts and complexity.
They’re not. They have this very expensive thing called a battery.
That’s what Elon sold us. The cost of a battery has dropped 90% in the last decade. Why dont ICE haters quote the cost of catalytic converters?
The cost of a battery has dropped 90% in the last decade.
They’re still very expensive.
Why dont ICE haters quote the cost of catalytic converters?
I don’t know, why would they?
Just what do you think is easier to make. A battery where sheets of metal are coated in a liquid, dried, cut, rolled, and placed in a box? or all the parts needing milling and placement for a an automatic transmission engine?
I don’t know what’s easier to make. I do know what’s more expensive.
If you get a vehicle that’s very efficient and give it 150 miles of range, they can be quite a bit less expensive, but we also know no one will buy them.
Beater cars are about $2K-$7k round here
You can buy a used Nissan leaf 5 years old or newer for 4K.
I mean you can get a used beater for $1 but now you’re throwing a billion new variables into the mix that aren’t comparable.
You can in many other countries, lol. Try $3k for a gas car. That is closer to the global entry point.
You got a source for that? This is a brand new, road-legal car that meets modern safety standards?
Name any car on sale for $15K. Park it in your driveway of your $90,000 house.
It’s okay that you have no idea what vehicles are available outside the US, but maybe educate yourself instead of proving your ignorance next time?
China is dumping TEMU EVs all over Australia. They only look like actual cars.
americans can’t buy cars that exist outside of the USA. Just like the chinese can’t buy F150s
Yes. That is the point I am making. If you can’t manage to follow a conversation then maybe your input isn’t needed?
FYI, I block morons. Bye.
Back in the 90s
New gas cars are 30k and up. Getting a new EV for 40 or a ev used for 25 is totally reasonable.
Now when everyone else on earth is getting them for half that.
Don’t let perfect be enemy of good etc. I tell everyone that a 2 car household needs one electric car. Most families don’t have two cars that need to go 300 miles in a day. Most don’t have one.
Some could get away with spending 3k for an old one that goes 60 miles but it doesn’t matter because they drive 20.Want to set down the crack pipe and point me towards these three thousand dollar EVs?
https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/cto/d/nordland-2011-nissan-leaf-only-20k-miles/7905766000.html Here you go. Feel free to tell me sorry for being a no-good-nincompoop
Have fun getting that out of Port Townsend lol there’s a reason that’s cheap.
I said you could get an old one for 3k that goes 60 miles. You said that was crazy. I provided a random link to a 3k car that can go 60 miles. You snark back. Are you trolling or what?
Used EVs are cheap. Over $15k and you are doing something wrong.
I’m looking at getting a used one with a lot of miles for that much 😭 so yes.
Where do you live that you can get an ev for 15k? Just curious is all.
Used.
Ontario.
US$9000
My mistake, I didn’t know he meant used. Working in the car industry and leasing an ev. They are the last kind of car I’d buy outright. The problem is that he is trying to sell a reasonably new car for about 12500 cad when the same year camry is in 18-22k. My experience for that is because by the time you go to sell a used ev, you can get a new one for not much more and get the better range, newer battery, and full warranty. That being said, I do desperately wish that the corrupt government would let in other brands, but that’ll never happen. It’s protectionism.
Most every country on earth that isn’t the United States or Canada.
Used not so hard
You can barely get a motorcycle for $15k
The fuck? I could get a new cb450 for about $6k here in California.
I just want my next car to not be connected to the internet.
Give me an electric car with the features of a base model 2001 Toyota and I’m gold
Aux port or Bluetooth?
Aux
I have a car that the radio module isn’t working in, so it’s exactly that lol. All the features of a modern car but no internet connection.
The only annoying thing is that I have to physically go to the car to see what the state of the charge is.
Only two options: buy used or build your own.
No charging stations around middle America and half the country believes in the anti environmentalism pushed by businesses and the GOP
I would prefer public transport, but if I have to get a car.
I would want a station wagon that sits a normal height off the ground, not an SUV. I would like a volt style hybrid, saves a ton on battery weight and covers more than 95% of my driving on a single electric charge, while still allowing for longer drives without the extended wait times at charging stations.
The EV was the best thing for the automative industry to try to stay relevant while also claiming to do something for the climate.
Public transportation should be the goal imo, as far as possible, you won’t be able to cater to all use cases, but then ride share or rental is preferable
I don’t want to use an app with my car. I want a car like I have now, with knobs and only a keyfob required to get in and go. Cars are needlessly invasive.
Okay, but the article is about EVs. The issues you describe exist with both them and internal combustion engine vehicles.
It’s more pronounced in EVs.
It actually isn’t. all cars track you now.
The only difference is the drivetrain.
We are alike friend, and yes it it’s bad in all cars manufactured after 2012, but that’s ok. EVs have more weight and tire particulate pollution which kills the salmon up here, so I think EVs exist only to save the auto industry, not the planet. Buying new cars kills the planet.
It’s actually cheaper to get an older car with cash and have great mechanics, compared to getting any car loan on a new car. I have a 2000s car that I’ve “totaled” twice, but the damage was minimal, and I came out of the repairs with more cash from insurance than what the repairs cost.
2nd gen Honda CRV, doesn’t have to weak CVT transmission with the dumb belt, great cargo, and good gas mileage. Transmission and engine replacements would be big and are less than $10k. Toyota matrix also great.
The selection is slim and the prices are high.
Fuck the 93%. I want a 6k electric car.
I think you can get a nice electric golf cart for that.
Who can fucking afford them?!
anyone with an income of 100K or better can. that’s a lot of people and the majority of new car buyers are in that income bracket. 20% of the USA population.
the other 80% cannot afford them.
US Americans go into debt to afford combustion engine cars.
They pay $120,000 for a stupid truck.
ICE are about 10K cheaper than a comparible EV.
Hybrid is really where the best value for dollar is.
Dacia sells a full BEV for less then USD14K in the EU. So you are basically saying that a new ICE car costs USD4K in the US? In China they are even cheaper or have better ranges. Hell countries like Nepal famous for the insane number of poor migrant workers it send to the Arab world has an EV share of 76% and it is not exactly uncommon for developing countries to be well above the 7% in the US.
Dacia sells a full BEV for less then USD14K in the EU.
Because it’s a Dongfeng and the Chinese government is dumping to kill local industry. Good luck with that POS in 4 years.
i live in the USA i can only buy cars on the USA market. in the USA market EV is a luxury market. EV drivers are primarily paying 50K+ or more for these cars as a status symbol. Your average school teacher can’t afford an EV, and is buying a used hybrid/ICE car.
what goes on in the EU/China whatever is irrelevant, i don’t live there. I also cannot import those vehicles and they’d be illegal to drive here due to our safety and emission standards.
just like the fact if i want a house here, it costs me 500K. Houses in nepal might be 50K, great for them. But it’s irrelevant to me. 50K houses existing in nepal does nothing and has no economic impact for me.
the USA market EV is a luxury market. EV drivers are primarily paying 50K+ or more for these cars as a status symbol. Your average school teacher can’t afford an EV, and is buying a used hybrid/ICE car.
Brand new Nissan Leaf is under $30K. Used lightly under $14K for a 2021 model. The sweet spot with EVs is used because idiots think they will explode in 3 years. The beauty of ignorance is a cheap alternative for those who read.
This thread thinks EVs are Teslas. You can buy facial tissues for a lot less than Kleenex.
it’s also a shitty car nobody wants. Nissan has a horrible reputation.
you seem to think people are jerks for not buying a crappy EV when they can get a much better ICE for the same/less?
why would i ever buy a leaf if it is a POS that doesn’t meet my needs?
i live in the USA i can only buy cars on the USA market. in the USA market EV is a luxury market. EV drivers are primarily paying 50K+ or more for these cars as a status symbol. Your average school teacher can’t afford an EV, and is buying a used hybrid/ICE car.
Even then there are cars like the Nissan Leaf for 26K. Over 35K there are a lot more options. So EV drivers paying 50K+ is really optional. Even compared to ICE cars it is not that crazy. The cheapest new one still costs over 20K
what goes on in the EU/China whatever is irrelevant, i don’t live there. I also cannot import those vehicles and they’d be illegal to drive here due to our safety and emission standards.
We are talking BEVs here. They do not have emissions. It is also not like EU safety standards are low. In other words that is not the problem.
Used EVs are also incredibly cheap. I basically saved 30k on a MachE GT by letting someone else drive it for 9000 miles.
Used EVs are also incredibly cheap.
Because people buy into the propaganda. Nissan leafs are good in gen 2 or 3, 2018 or newer, and they are $10K or less without much mileage.
Unlike used ICE, no need to worry about transmissions or timing chains, even the brakes last forever because of regen.
It’s simple. The old guard of car manufacturers in Germany, USA, and Japan know how to build high profit cars that are differentiated. If they market electric cars, they could lose that advantage, because their electric cars don’t a lot differently than the Chinese ones. If they build great electric cars, they’ll lose that advantage because they’re behind the Chinese in r&d, and their manufacturing an R&D costs are much higher.
Then Trump comes along and eliminates all reason to build EVs for the USA market.
So they spend a lot of effort marketing conventional vehicles. Surprised? Not really.
Many Canadians and USAians also travel hundreds of km on road trips as part of their vacations, driving kids to college, family reunions, thanksgiving, etc., and the charging infrastructure isn’t there even if charge times come way down. Sure, it’s occasional but it’s an oversized consideration in the American mind.
Hank Green made an interesting point in this video.
Essentially, because it’s illegal for car manufacturers in the US to sell their own products, it’s left to franchises, who make a large portion of their income from ongoing service plans; oil changes and the like. EVs obviously have far fewer of those, so the folks in sales are more likely to push regular petrol models instead.
Until places that are losing customers install electric chargers to charge while you eat. Then they charge for the electricity for profit and become a must stop destination. Range anxiety is an issue, but it gets less so with each iteration and each charger install.
I just want a horse with an electric motor. Stupid evil carmakers won’t make one.
Personally, I’m waiting for the next generation of battery technology which undoubtedly completely blow away this current generation and make them all tank in value.
You can replace battery packs. I plan to drive my current EV for a long long time. Eventually I’ll replace the battery but I’m hoping by then there’s an easy way to use the old battery in a home system. Reuse beats recycle
