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concentration camps and millions being stripped of health insurance and food assistance
So like Gaza?
Because I’m pretty sure this was the logic for people who refused to vote that this very community spent an entire year assuring me was a bunch of tankie bots from ml.
The majority of people who didn’t vote for Harris don’t care about Gaza. They’re just larping on the internet.
She wasn’t a zionist and wanted to end the war. It was a clear cut decision, but it was a brown and black sacrifice people were willing to make for their moral purity.
I was ready to demand my Lefty comrades go vote for Kamala: after all, one Genocide is better than two genocides.
But then she came out “tough on the border” and took that from me. She promised to be every bit as hard as Trump.
https://theweek.com/politics/kamala-harris-immigration-policy-mexico-border
But she worked HARD to alienate the Left. She took every piece of rhetoric I had and shat on it.
So we have Kamala caving on Gaza with rhetoric (and walking it back)
But flatly refusing to do anything:
Just like the Liberal Party. Promise almost nothing, make a symbolic gesture, do actually nothing.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/harris-gaza
So when she gets no support, why are Clinton Neoliberal, Reaganomics-poisoned-but-polite Liberals surprised? This is the Country they designed, on purpose.
She wasn’t a zionist and wanted to end the war
Citation? Because any time I saw anything indicating that, she IMMEDIATELY walked it back. And I’ve cited (shitty) sources.
It is possible for her to be a bad candidate who made consistently bad decisions, and for it still to be a bad choice for an individual to not vote for her.
source: *gestures in all directions *
100% I have voted in every primary until this one bc it was canceled. I still voted for her even though I hated it bc the reality is/was that, of the two choices, she was not the worst.
The time for moral grandstanding is always long past when it’s Election Day.
The time for moral grandstanding is always long past when it’s Election Day.
Good line. And good reasoning before that!
I have voted third party in the distant past. It’s not some awful taboo to not play along with the two party system. And given my extended family, the further back I look in the past the more that right wing stuff just seemed normal, so I may not make the same choice now.
But the time to abstain or go third party is when the price of expressing my more ideal choice is worth not voting against the worse of the 2-party candidates.
I guess the logical exception to that is if you’re an accelerationist and you think we are SO far beyond being able to course correct that it is literally a more moral and humane outcome to turn the nu-neo-nazis loose on just about every vulnerable demographic that exists. Then you get to the rebuild phase faster and there’s less time for the government to kill & ruin people. But you never know if your plan is going to hit a little roadblock called nuclear armageddon.
Again, third party votes did not remotely sway the 2024 election. Blaming protest voters for your candidate’s anemic performance just reeks of entitlement.
Accelerationism is how we got Israel holding an abnormal amount of power for a country their size / economic importance.
100% real. I had the same reasoning. I’m just mad she didn’t let me bring more people with me.
Genocide voters deserve genocide. Too late to complain now lmao
Get sent to Gitmo. Enjoy your own medecine. No empathy whatsoever
I dug through my comment history to find this. It has plenty of links.
I read it. Democrats will keep playing the left for fools and moving to the right, no matter what happens.
No Bernie’s campaign and Warren’s campaign drove Biden to the left on a whole host of issues, including labor unions.
There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu’s genocide.
Don’t lie.
This comment said it best and lists calls for a ceasefire from Harris.
https://lemmy.world/comment/13069715
She’s taken a stance, multiple times. The left doesn’t want to hear it.
March - https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1234822836/kamala-harris-benny-gantz-gaza-cease-fire-israel-hamas
July - https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/25/harris-netanyahu-israel-cease-fire-00171315
Harris promised to do everything in her power to end the war in Gaza.
“This year has been difficult, given the scale of death and destruction in Gaza and given the civilian casualties and displacement in Lebanon, it is devastating. And as president, I will do everything in my power to end the war in Gaza, to bring home the hostages, end the suffering in Gaza, ensure Israel is secure, and ensure the Palestinian people can realise their right to dignity, freedom, security and self-determination,” Harris said to applause during a rally in East Lansing city of Michigan, home to 200,000 Arab Americans.
Unlike Biden, Harris was not a life long Zionist.
When Joe Biden met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet during his visit to Israel, the U.S. president assured them: “I don’t believe you have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and I am a Zionist.”
Harris wasn’t perfect. And that was simply not good enough for some people who didn’t want to risk their hands getting dirty. Even if it meant the Palestinians becoming the cost of doing business.
I voted for Harris and the election is over. That doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend that she wasn’t as committed to Netanyahu’s genocide as Biden was.
Good for you. I appreciate it. No need to spread propaganda though.
Saying that Israel has a right to exist is Zionist.
Is this propaganda?
Ah yeah you guys should have voted for genocider-lite. To save the genocidees.
Damn Arabs they never know what’s good for them. Now enjoy the bombing idiots /s
There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu’s genocide.
Don’t lie.
You may have missed the “No daylight, kid.” thing it seems.
Thank you for the well reasoned response.
Here is my Issue:
When the Harris campaign did nothing to add teeth to the promise of a ceasefire (such as cutting off the weapons for the genocide would have done)? It comes off as just another empty gesture.
“Ben, stop the fighting! <reloads his guns> I mean it! <cocks a gun for him> we really need this to stop! <unloads missiles off a truck> I mean it!”
Only in the final final week before the election did I find any hope of cutting off weapons shipments. I had to dig, I had to scrounge, I had to be plugged in all day, every day, and trust political tabloids to maybe have it right this time, even as they referenced hints and leaked memos that the reader just had to trust existed.
Evidence was sparse, hard to find, and hard to trust.
Meanwhile, the sale of Palestinian Land https://wagingnonviolence.org/2025/01/activists-infiltrate-israeli-events-selling-palestinian-land-in-us/ Continues unabated. We see the incentive even beyond the “manifest destiny” style ideology, we see material gain for Israel to continue as long as ammo will last.
And rather than break from Joe, she wanted to be seen as AIPAC as honoring his commitments. She had a long history of supporting Israel. Publicly. Loudly. Even as that foreign-state’s lobby backed people far to her right in both parties. https://theintercept.com/2024/10/24/aipac-spending-congress-elections-israel/
This information was widely available. Easily accessible. Why would I trust someone who wants AIPAC campaign money to share my values when I don’t even see her articulating them in any meaningful way?
trump still worse.
No thought comment?
I can do that too.
(Voted for her too, btw, I’m mad her rhetoric didn’t let me bring friends)
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She promised to be every bit as hard as Trump.
Bullshit. Biden deported more than Trump. But it wasn’t news because he did it legally. Everyone got due process. There were no foreign prisons for the mass deportations. The problem with Trump isn’t the deportation but his illegal methods.
The problem with Trump isn’t the deportation but his illegal methods.
To a Liberal? Sure. One minute court hearings under Obama were technically “due process”. https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/speed-over-fairness-deportation-under-obama
I care about my neighbors, not some piece of paper.
For a long time, Democrats have been polite Republicans, and I’m tired of pretending otherwise.
Yeah exactly. You’re not better than the trumpists, just less efficient lmao
Its all just more authoritarian propaganda man. They’re either mentally deficient or brainwashed at this point.
Way to unpack your slurs, maaan.
Anarchist here to tell you Obama turned deportation hearings into drive-thru ceremonies instead of actual justice:
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/speed-over-fairness-deportation-under-obama
Look I get it. You have to tell yourself lies to live with yourself after you voted for a genocide supporter.
But they’re just that. Lies
https://www.commondreams.org/news/harris-gaza
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IigxfKrO030
So go to therapy or something. Scumbag
So if you voted for Trump for his economic polices or yada yada you didn’t also vote for the camps? Harris was a continuation of Biden, lip serivice to peace and unprecidented support to the genocide. Any vote on the ballot was a vote for genocide, if you voted, you voted for it.
There were a million reasons that people didn’t show for Harris. Why do you scold only the people who were outspoken against genocide? Can you point to any evidence that this issue swung the election?
Biden put Harris in a terrible position by holding out as long as he did. Then Harris ran a horrendous campaign. That is why she lost.
People who care about Gaza are people who are politically engaged. That not who stayed home. Politically engaged people vote third party when they want to protest, and third party votes did not sway this election. Not even close.
People who stay home are normies who have given up. A lot of people need inspiration to show up, and centrist Democrats just aren’t inspiring.
I can only suppose that your fixation on the genocide issue is because you like the genocide and were pissed off that people objected to it. That’s the only reason to bring this trash up in every damn conversation about the Trump administration.
They tried to throw foreigners under the bus to have peace at home. Now it didn’t work they’re pissed they have to swallow their own medecine.
I see stuff like this and laugh. It would seem that most Americans, Democrats in particular, cling to the notion that they will have a chance to vote again. If there are midterms or another full election, they will be rigged the same as Russia, North Korea or any other “strongman” dictatorship. Keyboard warriors won’t make a whit of difference.
It’s one of the only things we have left to do so we better hope it makes a difference.
The right never gets any shit for using their key boards to advocate for murdering us all and it seems pretty effective for them.
BUT WAIT, THERE IS MORE!
You voted though, right? For Harris? That’s the only correct answer.
Non voters + Trump voters + Jill Stein voters brought us into this mess. I haven’t heard anything from Jill Stein, as a leader I hope she’s speaking out too to her base. ~~
I used the ballot box and voted straight blue, yes.
Really looking like it’s time for the next box and I hate that but no nazi deserves to breathe
Genocide voter.
No it was the democrats who put a candidate forward so uninspiring and indifferent on many different issues that people didn’t vote for her.
People didn’t want come that had no stance against the genocide and was different from biden.
Multiple people can be at fault. The Democratic party definitely fucked up by not holding a primary, but every single person who had a ballot in front of them and decided that letting Trump win was acceptable fucked up even worse
I do find Harris and the party worse. They held all the cards and stupidly decided not no give an inch. Madness.
Just give it up, theyre the same as Republicans who can’t admit they were wrong.
They’ll act like theyre morally superior while millions more die because of their vastly misplaced arrogance. More Palestians died and will die. More vulnerable people reliant on USAID will die, and rather than admitting you should try to shift left (And I agree the democratic party is center right at best) they just let the worst possible outcome happen.
Theyre not morally superior, theyre morally bankrupt and mentally deficient.
Yeah let’s vote for the people who did this:
To save Palestinians.
I love the mental gymnastics the genocide voters have to resort to so they can fix their cognitive dissonance lmao
You’re a bad person.
No it was people who didn’t want to vote for Kamala Harris. Everyone who doesn’t work at the DNC needs to learn that lesson. Everyone who works at the DNC has a different set of lessons to learn. Like be a socialist and abandon neoliberalism.
The fact that we had a choice of someone other than Biden was incredible from a political standpoint. It’s laughable more people weren’t jumping at the chance to elect the candidate who wasn’t a lifelong, diehard Zionist.
As a proud supporter of Claudia de la Cruz, I’m sure you’ll be pleased to know she hasn’t given up her flight: https://www.instagram.com/1claud9/, https://pslweb.org/
I am seriously tired of hearing this shit, what point does that matter now? Are you going to change the election? Move forward, we can’t do anything about how people voted now and it’s just alienating and irritating people.
To remind people that their actions have consequences and that they need to take an active role in the democratic process if they want to preserve it.
You voted for a genocider and still lost lmao
Not giving your vote to people who commited warcrime IS taking an active role in the Democratic process.
You know, it’s the politicians job not to do this kind of shit:
The “both sides” argument is one of the fascists’ favorite ways to inspire voter apathy, maybe take a second to think about harm reduction instead of focusing only on your own moral superiority.
Also, I’m not American, I have never voted in a US election.
You’re not american but you’re from a country that funded the genocide so why should I care about your opinion? You’re biased
The “both side” argument is perclfectly valid when both side support a genocide. Saying otherwise is denialism
Yup, and the whole “she wasn’t a squeaky clean and perfect candidate for me so I couldn’t vote for her in good conscience” sounds like such a fucking dumb argument in the face of what we’ve seen the other guy has done/will do.
And to the user you replied to: yes, it doesn’t do anything to change reality, but points like this should be noted so hopefully people learn. You vote so a piece of shit like Mango Mussolini doesn’t get to power and dismantle the U.S. government.
P.S. I proudly voted for Kamala Harris
You proudly voted to externalise the genocide so you don’t have to be assed fighting against it yourself
People needed to vote for the not fascist candidate in a choice between a not fascist candidate and a fascist candidate.
It’s not hard. Learn the lesson or die to fascists. People will be too dead to be alienated.
Genocider pos
Okay. Got anything other than time travel as a solution? If not, I need you to get the fuck off the internet, go talk to some neighbors, and do a moral-action to save some neighbors lives.
Is that moral action a crime? Depends on who you ask, which state you’re in, and how you choose to do it.
I recommend dragging a full-sized cross in front of an immigrant’s door as ICE tries to raid. On camera. In Los Angeles. With bible verses burned into the wood about “love your neighbor” from KJV. Even if you have to make the cross yourself.
Maybe you’ll get a good photo op for the movement, maybe you’ll psychologically break a gestapo or four.
I’m sure you have other ideas.
If we have another election vote in it. Vote for the Democrat candidates. Fill out the ballot with a pen. No larping fan fiction necessary.
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no larping fanfiction necessary
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/speed-over-fairness-deportation-under-obama
I’d rather larp on the internet than enable fash to larp at court until they can drop the facade.
This blood is on Democrats’ hands too, and I’m tired of your Team Sports mentality pretending otherwise.
if we have another election
And if we don’t? Or if its such a farce that its Russian-style ballot-stuffing?
Tell me the plan. Lemme guess… Brunch?
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/48128843
And when these are the people your party will FIGHT to put on the ballot? I’m sorry, even when I do vote, I vote alone. I dont get to bring a group of almost non-voters into the line with me.
Or your party could try to… Vote Blue No Matter Who in NYC. Back the party candidate. Offer support. Embrace a platform that starts to work.
No? No real Democratic presidential primary since 2008, and we’re supposed to trust that name? Thanks Kim Jong Un.
Then again, we wouldn’t be in this mess if Trump’s 6th Amendment Right to a swift trial were respected, so his name could have been taken off the ballots in time for a real election. Thanks Obama appointed judges!
You’re fight, people don’t like hearing about the consequences of their own actions. They like sitting comfortably, pretending they did what they could to stop it
“Look, I know that these people voted for you and yours to suffer, but you just need to get over that so that we can come together and be a happy family again. You not getting over that one little tiny bump in our past just alienates everyone that wanted to see your life destroyed. It was a tiny blip from our past. Just get over it already.” ~You…for the most part.
I’m definitely taking a dump on that bitch Virginia Fox’s grave when she dies and you know it’ll be soon cuz she’s an elderly, geriatric, expiring, old bitch.
And the worst part?
They probably sleep sounder than you.
We need to be thinking about how 77 million Americans voted for Trump and thought that was a good idea.
And we need to work out how to prevent it from happening again.
One thing is clear, billionaires and politicians are unwilling to relinquish power or wealth, even when their holdings are obscene or they are incapable of governing.
We will have to threaten either their lives or the structures on which their holdings depend, and can’t bluff. And they will likely choose death over surrender.
We won’t prevent it until people learn to start talking to each other with compassion instead of hostility. As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent, and that they should not be associated with unless you are harassing them.
We’ve already burned the whole bridge down, and now need to rebuild it somehow. If republicans and democrats were separated geographically they might just split the country in two, but as it stands nearly every state has a large population of both, so in my opinion the only way forward is reconciliation.
As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent
Um, is it at all relevant that one side literally is insane, or that one side commits 99% of the violence? Where is the Democrats alligator Alcatraz for Christians? Where are the Democratic brown-shirt vigilantes running around with masks kidnapping people?
I think Republicans are insane and violent because I see it with my own eyes. Are we supposed pretend their not? Screw that, I’d rather punch a Nazi.
They’re abroad victimizing brown people. That’s why you don’t see them.
We won’t prevent it until people learn to start talking to each other with compassion instead of hostility.
You can’t empathize with literal fascist… For two parties to reach common ground there has to be an assumption of both parties bargaining in good faith. If you continue to do that with fascist, people end up in camps.
As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent, and that they should not be associated with unless you are harassing them.
Well… In the last 30 years, how many mass casualties events have been perpetrated by liberal or leftist extremist? You can’t falsely conflate “both sides” when only one has a well recorded history of violence.
There is no common ground when the side you want people to compromise with wants to put me and my family in a prison camp.
We’ve already burned the whole bridge down, and now need to rebuild it somehow. If republicans and democrats were separated geographically they might just split the country in two, but as it stands nearly every state has a large population of both, so in my opinion the only way forward is reconciliation.
Conservatism isn’t an ethnicity… It’s a dangerous ideology that should have been stamped out during reconstruction after the last civil war. But people like you had the great idea of compromising reconstruction with reconciliation, so now we have to stomp it to death once again.
I’m ex republican. Higher education and having my life ripped apart by our state’s AG fixed me… barely. Compassion won’t fix these people. They fucking suck to their core and would rather die than change their opinions. I don’t have a good solution. Platforming the stupid in our country is a large part of the problem.
I guess you make a good point that dire situations often change minds. That might be the more likely thing to happen than people having conversations again, unfortunately.
It’s such a hard topic to discuss because everyone has varying exposure to how much ground empathy can gain. After living it, I can say that they are more lost than most people think.
So start treating them the way they will treat you. Personally I’ll leave someone to die if they have a Trump sticker/flag/hat/etc, because they would do the same to me.
Fun fact: everyone who didn’t vote for Hitler made it through the war with a 100% clean conscience, and did not regret any other inactions. /s
Reminder that Hitler lost the election. The liberals endorsed a conservative candidate in the name of unity, who won, and proceeded to staff the government with Nazis and made Hitler chancellor, in the name of unity.
The left, cursed with Casandra Syndrome, campaigned on “A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war.”
In the end, many of them did end up supporting Hindenburg. But liberals will always see the left as a greater threat than fascists.
Fascinating that “I wish we had elected the Nazis sooner” is tankie orthodoxy.
Genocide voter cope
Socialism is the only way to stop liberalism from proceeding to fascism. If the liberals had supported the socialists instead of demanding the socialists vote for them while they create the conditions for fascism to grow, and then hand power to the fascists, we could have strangled it in its crib.
It was as true in the 1920s and 30s as it is today. Hell we even saw the dems choose to fund ICE year after year, after they built the first set of cages, and right now, today, are choosing not to block its massive expansion.
And you have any faith at all that those same people have any interest in stopping fascism?
If the liberals had supported the socialists instead of demanding the socialists vote for them
Yes, if only the liberals, who make up a plurality of this country, had chosen to support the socialists, who make up single-digit percentages of this country, they would’ve won the election in a landslide and everything would be fine right now.
instead of demanding the socialists vote for them while they create the conditions for fascism to grow, and then hand power to the fascists, we could have strangled it in its crib.
As we all know, socialism has never allowed fascism to take root. So glad that problems have easy ideological solutions.
But of course, what am I saying? You’re a holodomor and Uyghur genocide denier. You love fascism, as long as it has the right color of paint.
Lmao the worldists just spent years defending the genocide. There are still people saying Iran deserved to get bombed. Admin said Biden just had to send those bomb to defend America against big bad Iran.
Hello pot this is kettle
Yes, if only the liberals, who make up a plurality of this country
Not even close to correct. Who are the most popular politicians in this country? Every poll I’ve seen in the past 10 years has AOC and Bernie at the top, and the only politician who can even compete with their approval ratings is Mamdani.
Liberals make up a plurality of the news media and the wealthy Democratic donors. They aren’t plurality of the people. A recent poll has 62% of self identified Democrats saying they want new Democratic leadership, and only 24% saying they like the leadership they have. People are fed up, and they are not looking for more “centrist” Democrats.
Liberals make up a plurality of the news media and the wealthy Democratic donors. They aren’t plurality of the people. A recent poll has 62% of self identified Democrats saying they want new Democratic leadership, and only 24% saying they like the leadership they have. People are fed up, and they are not looking for more “centrist” Democrats.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/656636/democrats-favor-party-moderation-past.aspx
Polling using the word “liberal” is pretty pointless. Leftists and centrists have completely different opposing definitions of what it means, and most Americans don’t have a clue.
Polling on specific issues or particular politicians is the only way to get an accurate picture, and Americans, especially Democrats, are far more left than they self identity.
Holodomer
You are literally doing nazi propaganda right now.
Uyghur genocide
lmao I am in China right now, I was in Urumqi earlier. There’s no travel restrictions, literally anyone can go there.
problems have easy ideological solutions
Correct, because ideology guides actions. Decisions informed by liberalism tend to heighten the contradictions of capitalism; the working class get weaker, the bourgeois get more powerful, and the petite bourgeoisie get one, then the other, making them easily controlled by anyone who offers them a scapegoat that doesn’t question the system that privileged them.
Had a discussion with my wife’s parents the other day. They thought it was hilarious. They laughed, alternating between mockery of the poor and “nobody helped me so everybody should suffer!”
She said maybe it’s time to go no-contact.
Going no contact is a lot easier than it sounds: the biggest issue is “them” not respecting your new boundaries.
My biggest piece of advice is to never respond to them. The ‘keeping silent and ghosting’ part can be a challenge.
Ultimately, though, you owe them nothing but your happiness.It’s tough. Years of upbringing makes it hard for her to not respond, but even in the best of times they were conservative nuts. But sure, not everybody likes their family’s political views, right? They went full Nazi during his first term. Now, they don’t even try to hide it and openly admit that they agree with everything happening.
And delete your Facebook account. It’s just generally better for your mental health, it aids in stopping the cycle of billionaires feeding everyone information by whoever pays them. And then it stops unwanted contact from family. They can still post about you, but they’re screaming into an empty void of data centers at that point
Here’s to hoping leopards feast on their faces soon!
some in-laws are such terrible people once you get to know them. but the IL are the on the recieving ends of the cuts in the bbb, they are getting exactly what they wanted, they are just copium. i had cousins that after the astroworld crush, they were sitll “investing” in that venue, how immoral you have to be to do that, they would be the same people that would work for palintir because of money. asians are quite disconnected from politics/current events.
Didn’t vote for it isn’t good enough. 90M people didn’t vote. We needed 2M more to vote against it. Remember this when the midterms come around next fall.
If 2M more voted Democrat, Musk would have donated a bit more to make up the gap. I think we’re flying past actual Democracy pretty soon. We’d need 20 million more before skewing the vote is prohibitive.
Campaign money is important, but it also has it’s limits. At some point, more spending has diminishing or even negative returns. We just saw that with Elon in Michigan.
We also need a political party that also understands this. The entrenched democratic advisers lost 2 times to Trump and I havent seen any mass firing. If anything, the establishment dems are attacking anyone trying to change.
It doesn’t work like that. I’ve been saying this for decades, but maybe this explanation from a political strategist will do a better job.
Simply put, the donors want to win to influence the candidates. They base their data on past voters, not the entire electorate. If you don’t vote, you don’t influence. It’s really always been that simple.
We need to stop rewarding those who have the financial means to reach us in our living rooms, and actively seek out the progressives in every primary. Vote in every election. Stop allowing retirees to pick our candidates and continue to push the Overton Window to the right.
But that video basically tells you straight-out… the usual campaign strategies are clearly wrong. You put out a campaign that gets people excited and suddenly way more people get out to vote. It’s not a complicated theory. It clearly works in practice.
All of this conversation though, just shows how fucking poor democracy based around voter turnout is. Put elections on a weekend or make it a public holiday, and make voting mandatory (with the option of a blank ballot for those who really object to voting). It doesn’t solve all your problems. But it sure does help a lot.
Bruh. If you voted, they’d cater their advertising to you. The candidates are still there, you’re not voting for them, and blaming the lack of advertising. That’s like blaming lettuce for not advertising salads and complaining about always eating McDonald’s.
Do you want to take control of your government or not?
I’m not sure why you’re so hell bent on keeping a strategy that objective reality shows doesn’t work. DNC needs to evolve or they will die.
They absolutely do. That happens as soon as we start voting in primaries.
I vote. I’m not American, in case my instance name didn’t give it away. I’d vote even if I didn’t want to, because it’s mandatory to do so, one of several vast improvements my country has over yours in the quality of our democratic processes.
But did you watch the video you linked in the last comment? Because it completely turns your argument on its head. You say “if you voted, they’d cater to you”. But that video clearly demonstrates that the exact inverse is true. If you want to get out the vote in a large segment of the Zero Primes, all you have to do is run as exciting campaign with bold progressive policies. The evidence is all laid out there in front of you, even in common sense couldn’t get you there.
Both things can be true.
A good campaign can get people into the voting booth.
A demographic that fails to show up when you think you’ve done everything that makes sense to get them out can cause them to give up on the demographic. They may be woefully misinformed about what they should be doing, but since they don’t know any better, they are likely to just give it up as a lost cause.
Show up in the primaries for the candidate you want, it’s the only realistic way to break the chicken and egg of the establishment ignoring the voters that don’t show up and the voters not showing up for the establishment that ignores them. If the establishment is surprised by the primary outcome, that’s the strongest wakeup call for them.
Of course that’s all the donors have to do. That’s how we get a wolf in sheep’s clothing. We need grassroots primary candidates, and they run all the time. We just don’t do our civic duty and vote in every election.
To give you an idea of how bad it’s gotten, the average turnout for congressional primaries is less than 15% for the last 30 years. That’s why we have this government. We’ve been letting retirees pick conservative centrist Democrats and push the Overton Window to the right for decades.
Edit: You’re going to downvote my factual information in favor of your disenfranchising bullshit? Bruh. You don’t even go here.
You’re going to downvote my factual information in favor of your disenfranchising bullshit? Bruh. You don’t even go here.
Nope. I didn’t even see your comment until after the edit. I am going to downvotes because of the edit, though. Probably woulda upvoted otherwise.
I definitely agree with your last paragraph here. Try to vote in progressives in every primary we have access to in order to use voting to make a difference, yes.
However,
the donors want to win
You mean they want everything for themselves by buying politicians, right? Because often times Dem strategy is so incredibly tone deaf the only thing that’s clear about it is that they aren’t trying to win an election, they’re simply doing what the donors tell them to do. In this case, it’s the classic pretend fight, send strongly worded letters, and then let the republicans narrowly pass the massive tax break for the rich. Which is in fact a win for the donors, but nobody else.
That’s not the case if we get behind candidates with good ethics in grassroots campaigns. They choose to accept donations, and can refuse contributions from unsavory donors. We have several clean donor Representatives in the house. It’s not impossible. It just takes our participation.
What do you think fascism is, and what are its causes?
Do you seriously think the German descent into fascism was a result of poltical apathy?
I’m not entertaining a philosophical debate with someone who equates Harris and Trump.
We can try again when you’re older.
I saw a great quote somewhere that said something like, “You will understand modern American politics if you realize that GOP politicians fear their voters and Democratic politicians don’t fear their voters.”
A lot of progressives and leftists use this as an excuse to not vote and act like withdrawing from politics means they’re not complicit. What they don’t realize is that is exactly what creates this atmosphere where the Dems cater more and more to the center and right to get votes.
Not to mention the general atmosphere like we have on this very thread where the left eats itself alive and divides itself with purity tests that could never work in reality.
If you don’t vote, you don’t influence.
That’s the stupidest strategy you could have when you know WHY a lot of people aren’t voting at all. The only purpose of this strategy is to participate in the degradation of voting shares, and by extension, fascism. You want new votes, you get new people to vote, and you know how to do that. The GOP figured it out (I don’t want to say Trump figured it out).
How do you think the GOP got those candidates in the election? They enter through primaries. We don’t need to figure it out. We have the goddamn answer. We just need to vote in primaries and stop allowing retirees to pick corporate centrists for us.
Look at the Cuomo / Mamdani primary for NY mayor, the DNC really tried to kill the socialist campaign. Most primaries like that don’t get that much support against the “old guard” among Democrats, so most of the time, the actual good non-centrist option gets swept away like dust. The work that’s needed to push a socialist through the primary is so much more than “you just need to get out and vote” because those like Cuomo have so much more weight to shut them down, it’s so rare for that to fail like this.
They didn’t try to kill anything. They just didn’t put support behind Mamdani. If we did our civic duty and voted in every primary, the candidates that represent us, like Mamdani, would always be in the general election.
We can’t keep blaming big lettuce for not advertising salads while buying McDonald’s every day. We know it’s out there. Go get some lettuce.
The purpose is you have to stop supporting bad parties from somewhere, otherwise you can be coerced into voting against your interests every single time.
It had to end at some point. Now there is a socialist candidate.
what we need is for people to start exercising their second amendment rights
There’s no way to vote against something that both candidates support (eg. genocide).
Your insistence on seeing black and white in a gray world will be your end.
Unfortunately it’s also my end.
They didn’t vote for trump, but they sure as hell voted for this.
You’re the one stuck in black and white thinking. Any Democrat is better than any Republican, by definition. You would canvass for Mussolini if his opponent was Hitler.
That’s entirely false. Read my comment history. I spend most of my time on Lemmy trying to engage people in the primary process to unseat the corporate centrists.
Regarding the 2024 election, the Palestinians had two options. Bad, and worse. By refusing to choose, they were going to get worse. People like you would rather not put their names on bad, and let the Palestinians get worse, so they’d have a clear conscience.
I have no respect for the self-righteous.
You still don’t have any red lines though. There’s nothing a candidate could do, no behavior so monstrous, no atrocities so grand that would ever make you not vote for the lesser of two evils. Again, you would vote for Mussolini if he was running against Hitler.
If not, where is your red line? What would a Democrat have to do before you would refuse to vote for them, regardless of who they were running against?
There’s nothing a candidate could do, no behavior so monstrous, no atrocities so grand that would ever make you not vote for the lesser of two evils.
Yeah that’s basic moral judgement. You realize that the alternative to the lesser evil is the greater evil, yeah? For as grand and magnificent as the atrocities you’re talking about are, the existence of a greater evil implies even grander and more magnificent atrocities. Given a choice between “grand and magnificent atrocities,” and “grander and more magnificent atrocities,” which would you choose?
Is it worth allowing the grander and more magnificent atrocities to happen just to fool yourself into thinking you had no part in it?
I’m not entertaining a philosophical debate with someone who equates Mussolini and Hitler.
We can try again when you’re older.
[email protected], c. 1939
If they cared about genocide so much, they should have voted to prevent the one they would trigger back home.
Why? You voted for a genocide abroad. You deserve a genocide back home.
Enjoy your own medecine, idiot
Primaries!
If more people voted in primaries we would have probably had president Sanders instead of Trump the first time around
these manufacturing guilt posts would work if we were not seeing dnc sabotage mamadani to favour predatory stooges just like trump. the “blue no matter what” is only for trash candidates that superpacs want. everytime we get close to a leader that we want like bernie or aoc or mamdani, dnc shows they work for the trumps not against them.
i am not a violent person so pls suggest how we can help get aoc elected in 2029 without doing a luigi on likes of pelosi and schumer ?
does anyone really thinks that these dnc elites actually care about anyone other than themselves and the megadonor billionaires:
…you think AOC is an outsider? Oh sweet, sweet summer child, bless your heart.
she might not be an outsider but she seems to have a spine, supports the progressive cause and candidates. she is the way “lesser evil” that we should be settling for. she is also liked and respected by a lot of fringe gop voters. so there’s a good chance that in time she also get fulls house and senate majority.
I dont hear much about what she’s done for her constituents outside of social media posts attacking people or performative political actions. I dont dislike AOC but it is accurate to say she hasnt done anything of substance yet.
I will say its clear who will be running for president though, her and newsom are both extremely obvious about it.
Going after AOC for allegedly not doing anything for her constituents is pretty damn ignorant. You aren’t going to find many House members who are as engaged as she is, and her constituents are overwhelmingly pleased with her.
She is also one of maybe half a dozen House members with an effective social media game. You can belittle it as “performative” but engaging in public rhetoric is a big part of a politician’s job. I wish every Democrat advocated as well as she does.
It’s funny that you are attacking her on social media by criticizing her for attacking people on social media.
I think it’s far more likely she runs for Schumer’s seat in the Senate than the presidency. It’s pretty much her’s if she wants it.
FTFY
ots upsetting how far down I had to scroll to find this comment
Yeah sad how long we had to wait before attacking people who were appaled by Democrats bombing civilians.
It’s their fault really.
How do you vote against concentration camps when both candidates are genocidal?
you vote for the party that’s open to negotiations on the subject, i stead of the part that is committed to genocide at all costs
What would you have me do?
Harris said she would work toward peace talks. Whether this was true or not will never be known. But from what I’ve read, despite what she really wanted, she had to “toe the line” and not stray from Biden’s policies if she wanted to keep her campaign alive.
trump campaigned to not only let Netanyahu “finish the job,” and to write Israel a “blank check,” and to build a resort in Gaza, but also to build concentration camps ON AMERICAN SOIL, and to send Americans and immigrants in the US to foreign concentration camps.
Not voting for either is essentially a vote for trump, in this current political climate.
So voting for Harris is the closest we get to voting against concentration camps.
Harris said whatever she needed to win.
Harris administration did this:
Trump also said he was gonna get deals and negociate. You get politicians lies, yes?
The dems in congress are still supporting Israel as hard as ever. Why do you think Kamala, who hasn’t done or said anything since losing, would be any different? Are we forgetting she was VP and did nothing for an entire year of slaughter?
So then it’s literally a no win scenario, and I had to pick the least bad. My point stands.
By trying to minimize the amount of ethnic cleansing happening and slow it the fuck down so we have a better chance at stopping it rather than let it go unchallenged electorally and via direct action.
How is voting for them “trying to minimize it” asshole
Disingenuous bullshit.
Both candidates support israel, how is that disingenuous?
You know. I don’t need to explain it to you.
Lemme guess…Whoa whoa genocide joe where did you come from where did you go, where did you come from genocide joe
lol this nonsense again, let me guess you didnt vote in protest.
Exactly. The key to remember is that “vote blue no matter who” is a one-way street with one-way loyalty. Centrists demand loyalty from progressives, but they will never offer the same in return.
Poor technocrit. Your attempt to keep Republicans in power by infecting progressive-leaning voters with apathy, it just keeps getting weaker and weaker, doesn’t it?
Show me one who wasn’t “pro genocide”.
Edit: 26 down votes, and no one has even tried to put forward a “non-genocide” candidate. Really speaks volumes that they don’t even try.
That’s the point isn’t it? No matter who you voted for you voted for genocide.
Might as well vote for the one that follows the law, won’t deport people without due process to an extra-national torture prison, won’t demonize and harm LGBTQ citizens, and is willing to be held accountable.
Sure. Though I don’t know about that last part exactly. Since we all support genocide we should at least have some other stuff.
Since we all support genocide…
Your words not mine.
we should at least have some other stuff.
That quick list is in no way comprehensive.
There it is. Every time. They always get defensive. Yeah they were my words. They were factual words. You voted for genocide. I voted for genocide. Most of America voted for genocide, the ones that didn’t vote? They also voted for genocide. Get off your high horse, that’s what you voted for if you can’t accept it then you have no business talking about anything else.
Yeah… Single issue voters like this is what brought this orange demon upon us (again). Israel is really influential; they are going to genocide no matter what with the help of all their allies. By voting (or not voting) on this one issue, you risk huge economic stability and more war, as we’ve seen.
The entire world knows your political system is rubbish but, whether we like it or not, USA is the world police. And when the world police no longer polices we get emboldened actions like bombing Iran for no good reason.
“Genocide is a fatality”
Denialism at its finest lmao
And when the world police no longer polices we get emboldened actions like bombing Iran for no good reason.
I think you have a mistaken idea of what the policing has looked like in the past 78 years. The US bombed Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Guatemala, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lybia, and they’ve armed plenty of regimes doing the bombing for them (Saddam Hussein, for example). America has been destabilizing the globe for decades, and there is a lot of blood on their hands (on the order of 12 million, if we count direct casualties).
You think there was a good reason for invading Iraq?
Nope. Not at all. I don’t think any of it is good at all.
However, it doesn’t matter because the US has the biggest military in the world and maintained some semblance of global order. Now that the US has essentially flipped sides, it’s caused all sorts of instability with the global economy.
I’m being selfish here because your orange idiot and the sheer greed of your richest people has caused issues in our economy. It honestly would’ve been better under Harris.
Harris bombed civilians and you care about your wallet? Lmao what a pos
“Some samblance of global order” You’re a suppremacist.
It’s fucking depressing though. I voted for Harris, went to college, worked in IT and was a good little worker, got a decent credit score, barely got a starter home…
By all accounts I did everything right. But I’m still fucked. Going to be laid off this year and this IT industry is fucked. We all are. We can’t do anything because the wealthy always win. I’m depressed most days and only find joy in reading sometimes but other hobbies don’t feel the same.
Every time I’ve voted, my candidate of choice loses. I’m powerless. I’m not well.
What kind of genres do you read? If you dig speculative fiction I’m happy to share recommendations and am happy to talk books. It’s not much, but just nerding out about stuff somtimes helps.
I’m not op, but I like speculative fiction. I was really into Ministry For The Future. I also liked Termination Shock.
What have you got?
I think it’s pretty rad that you offered to recommend books. You’re alright.
Two other favorites from last year. The Island of Dr. Moreau by H. G. Wells but you should follow it immediately with The Daughter of Dr. Moreau by S. Moreno-Garcia. It’s sort of a companion piece written by a female, indigenous author. It bookends the sci-fi by a white guy nicely.
Also, I’ll always tell people they should check out the book that is credited with starting sci-fi as a genre. Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelly. It’s horror, it’s sci-fi, it’s speculative, it’s fucking awesome.
And the Blue Ant trilogy by Wiliam Gibson. He’s deff not for everyone. He can be really hard to get, and he just dumps you into his world and starts. There is no tutorial. But if he clicks for you, you’ll love it.
I used to be dogshit about reading but I’m trying to finish the Fourth Wing series. I’m on the last book.
But I noticed I generally enjoy thriller genres. Like The Silent Patient which was a thriller murder mystery.
And another thriller I liked was about a very thin haunted house. God the name escapes me.
Yes any recommendations are welcome and appreciated.
I’m not super versed in thriller but my friends have me dipping my feet into horror.
Sister, Maiden, Monster by Lucy A Snider was a favorite last year. Creepy, timely, and let’s say visceral.
I’m in the first 3rd of Perdido Street Station now from China Mieville. He’s credited with helping start the New Weird. Not horror as such but it’s marvelous.
And Light From Uncommon Stars by Ryka Aoki was just a rad read. It’s roughly about donughts, violins, and selling souls.
By all accounts I did everything right.
Maybe the actual problem is your definition of “right”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
Every time I’ve voted, my candidate of choice loses. I’m powerless. I’m not well.
Maybe you should start acting on your own instead of placing your life/future/trust in the hands of some sociopath.
What are you suggesting Americans do to survive? This is some bullshit reply.
Americans aren’t victims
Americans are the perpetrators
Obviously instead of voting you should just go be president yourself.
I have a relative who has been on medicaid on and off who “doesn’t pay attention to politics”. I frequently explain current events to them- like efforts to cut medicaid that may cause them to lose their coverage.
The obliviousness (or complacency, in many cases) of some people is unbelievable.
This is sending me
TBH I don’t want to talk to a bunch of libs who put me in a boiling pot. It’s annoying, condescending, and it does absolutely nothing to change the water temperature.
Dude nobody put you there. You were comfortable in an aquarium. You saw the boiling pot, then went and jumped in by yourself. Now you’re mad at those who warned you about the pot.
the “dont pay attention to politics” are the low information voters of trump, there are 2 types of conservatives: one watches fox news, or any right wing related media and consumes current events in a skewed way and somewhat up to date and the other are low info voters people who just take snippets and take the talking heads of (fox or right wing grifters like shapiro) out of the context because they dont understand the full story,
i think most are the latter, i know 2 people that are like this(still supporting ye and believing hes not actually BIPOLAR AND JUST TROLLING)
If only they had voted!!! It would be a totally different world!!! jfc…
Some of us are old enough to remember what things were like before Trump. Things would be completely different if Harris had won, and you’re a fucking naive child if you believe otherwise.
