I love the audacity of food places still asking for a tip on a pickup order when I’m ordering online. Like wtf. This stupid tipping culture needs to die and people who work in the industry just need to be paid fairly. This is insane.
The last time I ate at Steak n Shake, you order from a kiosk, fill your drink at the soda fountain, pick up your own food from a window, and bus your own table. Those fucks had the audacity to suggest a 20% tip at the kiosk
I don’t think I tipped on online orders for the past two years or so. Get used to it. They’ll still deliver.
There’s a huge difference between not tipping on a take out order and not tipping on a delivery. You’re a lazy piece of shit.
If you can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage, do better.
It’s kinda the opposite. Customers prefer places that pay very little. They did studies with consumers and told them one menu pays a living wage, but when they say the slight increase in prices they choose the other option.
It’s not the employer, it’s largely the customers that continue this trend
Employers can make the menu the same price by just limiting the profits. But of course, they present that option as impossible. “It’s either a living wage or an expensive menu”, and let the peasants fight over it.
And yet this issue doesn’t exist almost anywhere else except on USA, even when meals are cheaper.
Restaurant margins are notoriously thin. The average restaurant makes around a 3% to 5% profit margin. There are very few restaurants in America that could just triple their staffing costs and not raise prices.
Again this isn’t what the study showed. It shows the consumer in America will largely pick the cheaper menu then if everything is the same but the staff get paid more. The consumer is perpetuating this problem.
The only way to stop low pay and the system is to ask agree to stop tipping.
You are ignoring what I said. You say people don’t like price increases. I say price increases are not necessary. You say people still don’t like price increases.
I never said people didn’t like price increases
I’ll have to find it, but the study was between two different menus. One with tipping, and one with the tip already baked in so the staff for a higher salary but trying want required. The final price for each menu was the same (if you tipped).
Customer preferred to tipping menu.
Do you happen to have said study?
Yeah, this is unfortunately why tipping culture can’t be phased out by individual restaurateurs trying to create change. Consumers would rather pay $20 for a meal and tip $4 than pay $22 upfront and not tip. I imagine it’s the same psychological principle that makes people think paying $99.99 is significantly better than $100. The only solution is eliminating the tipped minimum wage all together so that everyone gets the same minimum wage (also, increase the minimum wage at least 200% while you’re at it).
That being said, it’s not just the customers. Whenever a state is about to eliminate the tipped wage, the National Restaurant Association (yes, another evil NRA) spends millions trying to kill it. It happened here in MA a few years ago; they convinced both servers and customers to vote down a referendum to eliminate the tipped minimum wage, even though both of those groups were just subsidizing the restaurant owners.
Of course given the choice, customers prefer to pay less for the same thing. That’s basic economics. It kind of needs to be all or nothing.
I voted to end tip wages, but of course I’ll go to the place that saves me money. This is why ending tip wages for all has to be the starting point
Got a link to these studies? Who is “they?”
A lot of people in the comments are remarking on the tip culture in America. Friendly reminder that it’s not the culture that necessitates tipping here. We have a tipping economy when it comes to a lot of service work. $2.13 is the minimum wage for servers in the states. This is less than what could rightfully be called a starvation wage, so tipping is a social necessity. You might think that’s crazy and we should change it, and you would be correct.
And yet this is BS when many servers are among the highest paid minimum wage people.
And they’ve had this ridiculous tipping wage for decades, and used to be ok with 15% tips
Now suddenly everyone wants a tip regardless whether they’re a server, some tips are stolen by management, we pay “service fees” for the servers, and suddenly we also need 20+% on hugely inflated food prices.
I’m sorry but servers seem like the only part of the economy doing well
Doing well? They’re getting by like the rest of us. Why would they do that job if they weren’t being paid for it?
I’m saying they’re demanding higher tips on highly inflated food, while most of us don’t keep up with inflation
they’re demanding
do you REALLY think the servers set the prices?
No but I can do basic math: taking a higher percentage of higher than inflation price increases is higher than inflation
…. And you need to read a few more words into the sentence “ they’re demanding higher tips”
I’m saying they’re demanding higher tips
no, I’ll take what you wrote as what you meant, dumbfuck
Since no one believes in unions and they’ve been legislatively kneecapped, social pressure to pay them tends to fall on the consumer. It’s not ideal, but such is the economy we live in.
Have you tried blaming someone with power?
Yes I’ve tried blaming my fellow voter, tried to persuade them to raise the minimum wage for all workers and do away with the tip wage altogether
Maybe they’ll still do better than the rest of us, or maybe not, but it’ll put them in the same boat as everyone else, or at least in the same water
And yes, I’ve repeatedly talked to my one brother in manufacturing about how much he’s benefited from unions, despite being in a salaried position where he’s not directly represented
Votes don’t equate to real power. Huge amounts of money and resources, like we see everyday in the news, are what move the needle. The only counter to that is mobilized political outrage. Overwhelming numbers of people making the economy sputter until demands are met. Otherwise, we can expect more of what we have now.
But yeah, a higher min wage is a good step forward.
We don’t have the tip culture here lol
I tip 0% at places where I go to the counter, order, wait, pay, and retrieve my food. That is a base level expectation, not a service or a favour.
It helps that we don’t have a ‘tipping wage’ anymore.
40% is an obvious strawman, but it’s a shitpost so that’s ok.
No one likes tipping culture. But regardless of what we want to happen, the reality is in the US there are jobs that depend significantly on tips for living wage. It is a well-understood social convention, and by making a purchase you are implicitly accepting the expectations associated with the customer. By taking the worker’s time and refusing to pay that part of their wage, you are underpaying them. Your protest against tips in no way inconveniences their shitty employer or otherwise incentivises them to do better. The only one worse off is the service worker you stiffed, and nothing improves.
If you do want to actually change things, you can become politically involved to try to improve their wage so they aren’t actually dependent on tips. Or you can boycott them by taking your business to places that don’t rely on tips. That way the shitty employer actually loses business to places with better practices. But don’t be a dick to an underpaid worker while pretending to have the moral high ground.
you are underpaying them
I’m not their employer, so I’m ok with that.
Servers themselves are opposed to change because of how embarrassingly overpaid they are
Wonder how much of this is due to the high class restaurants where servers do make a great wage (low six figures depending on the restaurant) and the lesser paid servers thinking they’ll get those jobs, some day.
To think that most servers are “embarrassingly overpaid” is pure fantasy.
That’s one of my objections for sure. I’ve gotten better service at neighborhood diners than some high end restaurants, yet 100% tips at a diner is less than the basic 15% at the high end restaurants. That diner server should have the opportunity to earn the same as that server at the high end place, yet it never happens
And yes tipping is sexist. A hot young server in a short skirt out-earns every time, regardless of service.
If you’re going to claim tipping is for good service, then a good server should be able to out-earn regardless of the restaurant and regardless of whether they’re are “hot”. That doesn’t happen
This. We had it on the ballot in Massachusetts and it got voted down in big part because a lot of tipped staff thought they would make less money from tips and they get brought up to the regular minimum wage if they don’t make enough anyway.
That’s fine, we’re a democracy I guess. Meanwhile I basically stopped eating in and tipping and it’s saving me loadsa money. Win win.
This is the real answer and the only way to actually end tipping culture in the US but people here don’t want to hear it. They’d rather just act superior and smug about how they stiff service workers
No, I’m not the fucking business owner. I’m not stiffing their employees, they are. Take it up with them.
By patronizing restaurants that make their employees rely on tips you’re only helping the owners stiff their employees
I’d still probably try and tip the people being paid more, since I’m from the Midwest US we’re trained from an early age to calculate tip percentages and still make sure to give extra. We just can’t compute “No sir/ma’am, we don’t accept tips.” without a bit of persistence, and if there’s internal systems like ratings and reviews we will opt to give them better reputation whenever available too.
10% is standard. Always has been and always will be (at least for me). Can go higher, but only if service is exemplary. “Just doing their job” level service gets 10%.
And don’t give me shit about inflation and the cost of living. The meal is twice as expensive now, which means a 10% tip is already twice as big as it used to be.
Guess what, my standard is 0% because luckily I don’t live in a country where people are underpaid
You probably hate freedom.
/s
We hate your freedom to put ketchup on pasta.
I’m confused who this is making fun of because this is a very eastern european thing to do lol.
Poking light fun at everyone, really. Including the Italian above and myself for living here and having taken on some of that.
And yes, I grew up eating spaghetti with minced beef and ketchup.
I don’t get why it’s supposed to be percentage-based. I tip a fixed amount, regardless of how much i spent
yeah I still tip (in Ontario, where servers make at least the same minimum as everybody else) but it’s just a rounded up value to even out my bill, and it’s a reasonable amount (a few bucks at most). as always, if whoever is providing a service for me did a truly above and beyond job, I will tip that. but I am rarely in that scenario when eating out, or anywhere else.
there’s just no reason that wait staff should be making an extra $30+ an hour when retail staff etc don’t make any tips. pay them all more. that’s my contribution.
Ok
Man, actual restaurant resraurants, non chain / non franchise… are just… largely not going to be a thing in a year or two, in the US, at this rate, outside of extreme high end places.
Margins aren’t there anymore, doesn’t matter how much owners gaslight servers, or anybody gaslights consumers… if you’re microwaving premade stuff… people can do that at home.
if you’re microwaving premade stuff
Yeesh what restaurants are you going to?
This really takes away from the rest of your point. The only restaurants I know that do this are of the chain variety.
A very large number of franchise/chain restaurants are literally just microwaving or reheating pre made ingredients or in some cases entire dishes.
https://substack.perfectunion.us/p/the-hidden-reason-why-restaurants
What restaurants do I go to?
Oh I’m fucking poor, and I act like it, so none, beyond maybe once a month, a local, non chain, american style diner or mexican place.
But what most people go to, or DoorDash/UberEats/etc., most often, in the US, is some kind of chain restaurant/fast food place.
Oh I probably misread your point… you’re trying to say they’ll be ok because that’s all they’re doing + economies of scale, and they can keep costs down.
Yeah… yeah.
Yes, you’ve got it now.
The chains will continue to exist, mostly, even though a lot of ‘underperforming’ locations are gonna get axed.
Real restaurants? Either gonna have to be actually run by basically business savants, which is … extremely uncommon… or maybe have a very substantial amount of local community support… or, they’re basically gonna have to be or become luxury restaurants.
If you need a 40% tip to earn a decent wage, go get a better job.
I pay $30/hr tips, but only count the time they are with me and not helping others. Which is about 5 minutes or less…
Did someone say this, or did you imagine it? 20% is standard for good service, but anything less than 15% is message that there was something wrong with the service. If you cannot afford to pay for good service, you should not seek good service.
Edit: Lotta downvotes, but all I’m hearing are the same tired arguments from cheap keyboard warriors who hate poor people. Nobody can point to anybody saying 40% is standard, and nobody has a solution to tipping culture that doesn’t involve victimizing tipped employees. You want to fix the system, let’s do that, but until we do, pay for the services you asked for.
but I didn’t seek good service. I sought a basic level of service expected of someone doing their job.
I don’t need service good enough to justify a $20 tip when I go out for wings and two beers and take up literally five minutes of the server’s time
fuck tipping culture, pay your employees. wait staff aren’t special. you better be tipping retail associates at least 10% of your purchases, too
Tipping culture sucks. You and I agree on that. Servers should be paid decent wages, and tipping should be optional.
That ain’t the system we got, though. And you don’t change the system by abusing the victims of the system.
it’s not the system we got, tho. wait staff make the same minimum as retail and fast food etc. they’re not special.
Then this conversation isn’t about you. Many places have exceptions to minimum wage for tipped employees. That, plus tip-out policies means that serving a customer that doesn’t tip can actually cost the server money.
but this conversation is about me, because tipping is still expected here
Pretty sure in all of Canada, or at least Ontario, everyone makes at least minimum wage. You go to Wendy’s or Boston Pizza, no one makes less than minimum. Why is it that I’m expected to tip at some but not others? Is a chip truck (where a tip is asked for) really different than McD?
My understanding is in the US, some people make $2 an hour and tips are expected. Then there’s places like Ontario where a tip is also expected. Genuinely, why?
All this “pay your workers” nonsense should be true for fast food, grocery store workers, and everyone else who makes minimum yet they’re not standing there with a tablet that “asks a few questions” every time you ask where the milk is.
They do make a really low base but are required by law to recieve at least minimum wage after tips. Some wait staff lie on their tips in order to avoid paying taxes on them, others lie because if their employer thinks they aren’t getting enough tips to cover their pay, that they must be a bad employee.
Fuck off lol. Don’t take a job where your wages are entirely dependent on the mood of the next person to walk through the door. “Good service,” you’re being asked to bring a glass of water, plate of food, and then a piece of paper, within 60 minutes. And 15% was the default up until like 5 years ago.
T. Former server, embarrassingly overpaid, no shame at all for people who see the rip-off in 2026
I agree with you, and I don’t have a job that relies on tips. But I live in a place where tips are the source of income for servers, so if I use their services, I tip. I also vote for politicians who want to raise wages for servers and eliminate the exceptions to the minimum wages.
If you cannot afford to pay for good service, you should not seek good service.
Then why still tip if there was something wrong with the service? If you have to add 20% to your bill for good service, it should go both ways. You are conveniently shifting blame from the true source of the problem: businesses not paying their employees enough to make a living.
businesses not paying their employees enough to make a living.
The thing I don’t understand is that even in states that have better minimum wages, the same tips are still expected.
California has the same minimum wage for both tipped and non-tipped jobs, yet one person working a minimum wage job can be paid significantly more than someone else also working a minimum wage job, just because they work in a position that’s customarily tipped.
Don’t those laws have caveats for tipped jobs, so the businesses don’t have to pay their employees minimum wage?
Not in California.
Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington state all have the same minimum wage for both tipped and non-tipped jobs.
A few other states have a tipped minimum wage that’s lower than their regular minimum wage, but still higher than the $2.13/hr federal minimum.
15% used to be standard. And it was only resteraunts, and local delivery services.
Now, I’m at a ballpark, buying BOTTLED BEER. All this bitch is doing is opening a cooler, and grabbing a bottle. And the kiosk card payment DEFAULTS to a 25% tip
Fuck off with that!
Only 5.5% of internet users are American. Don’t assume everyone follows US customs. Some countries actually pay waitstaff well.
We’re talking about the problem of tipping culture and complaints about being expected to tip too much. If you live in a country that pays waitstaff well, then this conversation isn’t about you. You can self select based on context clues.
I do live in the USA at the moment, but in a state that pays waitstaff well (California).
There’s too many American people online that just assume everything is about the USA though. It gets to me sometimes :)
In The Netherlands, service is included in the price. tipping is voluntary and not expected. If service was great, a 5-10% is generally the way. However, we have US-based chains like Starbucks that do or try aggressive ahead-of-service tipping on the price. It is very much frowned upon (especially because they already are expensive).
I’m from Australia and we very rarely tip. It’s just not part of the culture. It was one of the biggest changes when I moved to the USA.
We have an unspoken agreement where the server exaggeratedly looks away when we hit the “no tip” button before paying so we can all pretend it wasn’t there.
Canadians expect 20% tips. I’m sure others do as well.
Edit: You can downvote if you like but it’s still true
The tip should ideally be 0%, it’s not up to us to overpay to make up for the low wage
This is why I don’t go places I need to tip. The service is NEVER exceptional or even adequate.
Also I believe a business should not make its patrons pay a tip.
20% used to be for exceptional service. Things going up for no reason is completely plausible.
0% means something was wrong where I live (rude service or completely bad service does not make me want to pay an extra amount in gratuity), 10% has been standard as long as I can remember though (it was even part of the “real American heroes” bit from decades ago).
