Of course, this is going to affect the working class first and worst. But stay with me here.
My wife and I are what you’d call upper middle class. Thanks to our college education, union jobs in public agencies, and mostly being smart with money, our assets are not meager.
Are you like me? Don’t think you’re exempt. They’re coming for our assets too. They want all of us living paycheck to paycheck, begging our employers to not fire us.
What I’m saying is, the class struggle is everyone’s struggle. If you’re not a billionaire, you’re at risk. Act like it.
The #1 issue for all of us is Us versus Them. That’s it. There’s 1000 of them and 350 million of us.
It is, but the narrative they want it “us vs immigrants”. Think of how long they’ve been rage baiting people with this, it’s nuts.
Keep focus, it’s the 1%.
There are about 8 billion of us
Don’t tell the American that there is a world out there. It might kill them.
If they could read, they would be very upset.
But what will you do when the rest of the world’s working poor turns around and suddenly you’re “them”
Right, we need to be careful about defining class struggle globally when we’re in the 99% locally but most of us may be in the 1% globally
This is one of the many reason we need to help our fellow humans, it’s our duty to increase support through agencies like USAid, global public health initiatives, global emergency response, global food aid, global development, education, outreach. We’ve never done enough to support our fellow humans, and now that’s the first place they’re cutting. Do we credit them with the intelligence to call it an intentional part of the strategy to divide us from our fellow exploited class?
Exactly. I don’t think I am poor but in there eyes, I am dirt poor. Anyone can’t afford a seat at their table are at peril.
I’m glad they’re coming for your assets.
You have more than enough and should not receive even more while others have less, just like the billionaires you’re criticizing.
Edit: All the people getting mad at this reality are the reason why we have to choose between clintons and trumps. As soon as someone threatens the wealth of neo-liberals, they immediately agree with conservatives.
Greed and consumerism are the worst issues we face as a species. It makes sense most of you will react the way that you do when being forced to acknowledge your contribution to the problem.
Now, who’s excited for the switch 2 and gta 6?
There’s a massive difference between well-off, or even wealthy (think a practicing doctor/dentist or small business entrepeneur) and billionaire.
Saying ‘screw your savings’ to people like that is the conflict the billionare class wants, instead of everyone focusing on them.
Completely true.
Do you know what the difference is between a millionaire and a billionaire?
A billion dollars.
There is really no comparison. Doctors, lawyers, tenured professors, even most CEOS are working class compared to the investor class.
No it’s not. A well off doctor in the U.S. has more disposable income and assets than ~97% of the worlds population, and is able to sustain their resulting material wealth as a function of economic labor exploitation of “developing” countries
Y’all are just mad because Trump is kicking you down to hang with the rest of us poors.
MAGA scum
It’s incredible how you absolute cretins are happy to be shoved into the mud just because some other people you don’t like might have to walk through the mud too. What causes this?
Yeah. But this way he gets to be the most radical person in his peer group. Leftier than thou; regardless of the damage to the movement.
We should be starting at the billionaires and working our way down, but I also don’t care when consumerists and neo-liberals get theirs early.
You have more than enough and should not receive even more while others have less, just like the billionaires you’re criticizing.
This is the important part that you’re conveniently ignoring. Why should the person with a $400,000 house in suburbia be exempt from the redistribution of wealth while children starve? How much are they really contributing to the world to deserve that?
You mention doctors and dentists, and I’d agree with you. They can keep their assets within reason.
What about everyone else who isn’t in medicine? What about the people that aren’t easy for you to hide behind to justify your greed and consumerism?
It’s in our best interest to do things to stay in the “should be higher taxed” group, rather than the guillotine group. And I don’t think it’s as simple as wealth, but how you got it and what you do with it.
- Do you cause misery in your wealth accumulation, or support better jobs for everyone: better health and safety conditions, better benefits, higher pain, share in profits/efficiency, etc
- Do you hoard your wealth or spend on excessive luxury, or do you direct more to uplift those who didn’t catch the same bus?
I’m under no illusion that I have anything in common with working poor here, much less in less developed countries, but I do know I side more with them than the wealthy. I do know that giving even the least fortunate access to the same bus stop helps us all. I do know that there is a lot that can be done by taxing me more, more of what I have should be redistributed to provide the basics, to start building a more level playing field
I hope to deserve being in “should be higher taxed” group
Well off suburbanites should not be exempt from redistribution, but I. Doubt it will happen in a grand revolution.
There’s not going to be any “revolution.” I have a master’s degree in sociology. I could explain why, but it would be boring.
Jesus Christ, buddy, calm down.
How am I not calm?
Finally someone else who gets it. I kinda hoped lemmy would have a crowd that would at least be able to talk about this calmly but it looks like it’s no less rabid about this topic than reddit.
They don’t have to agree with conservatives. They just have to go so far as establishment Democrat. The “moderate” who keeps kicking the can down the road. ‘Wait till midterms’. Wait till the next red line so we can move the red line to some time in the future.
The dream is not to become a billionaire. The dream is to become upper middle class. So you can sit in the middle and expound on virtues of those beneath you while reaping the benefits of those above.
You could teach seminars on “Class Solidarity.”
And I suppose you live in a yurt off-grid, and don’t own a mobile device?
Thought so, hypocrite. Fuck Trump.
No, just live at or below a standard that is attainable for us all.
Thought so, hypocrite.
Sad watching you be so sure of yourself while also being clueless.
The French public would have a called a general strike at minimum while the AmeriKans take it in the ass.
did you know that protesting is not legal in many places in the US and also the police like to just murder people randomly
Then, they should have protested when protesting was made illegal. Now, they’re paying the price for that mistake, unfortunately.
That was around 9/11 and when Americans decided that racism was more important than civil rights.
To be fair the French complain about their access to stolen modern day African money
Because these two countries are otherwise identical in every way. Good thing you have an easy solution that still works in spite of the existence of assault rifles and wire taps
Not exactly.
The American political system turned into a gaggle of Mafias some time ago, France isn’t quite there yet.
I mean it’s pretty much been that the whole time… Idk I guess I’m just tired of people saying basically “Well here’s an obvious solution that you clearly missed because you’re automatically lazy and/or stupid if you’re from the US, and especially if you don’t have the financial solubility or high-demand skills to easily expatriate or you’re disabled, just get up off your lazy corn-fattened ass and go yell at the people who give the US military their orders. Oh, you say you tried and nothing happened? You must have been an utter and complete failure. You deserve this then.”
Not that that’s what is being said precisely, but it hits the same notes. And DicJacobus, this isn’t aimed at you, but at the original comment in this thread. Unless you agreed with them and I misread your tone
And let’s not forget. Tens of millions of magas, having witnessed the past few months, would vote him in again tomorrow if we gave them a do-over.
As furious as I am at the oligarchs taking over every last thing, evil greedy bastards gonna evil greedy bastard.
That anger pales in comparison to my rage at the tens of millions of my countrymen who dragged the rest of us into this fucking hellscape with them for no reasons beyond:
-Ignorance
-Hate
The ratio of those varies from maga voter to maga voter, but IME those are pretty much the only two reasons I see for why they have condemened not only themselves but also the entire rest of the nation to life in this emerging dystopia. They’ve already killed people in this country with their vote, and the numbers will only go up.
Yet somehow we all still have to go to work and get along every day, but I truly don’t care if I never see or speak to a single Trump voter ever again, and that includes so-called friends and family members. They are all dead to me, or as dead as familial and work obligations will allow. Every last one can choke on a bag of dicks and razor blades as far as I care.
Edit - I beg you, random silent downvoter, to explain to me where I’ve gone wrong in the above.
You summarize it perfectly. I am so disheartened by my fellow countrymen. So put off that I left the country and have no intention of ever returning there to live. When I see someone like Klepper interview maga, it is always driven home just how absolutely stupid and ignorant maga are. It’s really no wonder he got elected again. trump is indeed the symptom not the disease. I think the Leopards Ate My Face communities do a grave injustice because I see such communities giving people the false impresssion that maga is “realizing” something. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Many of my progressive friends are stuck in the “surely they’re all waking up”, “surely he wouldn’t try to do that”, “surely he wouldn’t get elected again” cycle.
I believe there is a third reason in addition to ignorance and hate: tribalism. whether it’s their religious tribe, or racial tribe, or sexuality tribe, conservatives tend to embrace tribalism more than anyone else. To them there are in groups and out groups. In groups that the law protects but does not bind, and out groups that the law binds but does not protect.
Ignorance, tribalism, hate, xenophobia, intolerance have always been able to take root in the minds of the weak. But when the oligarchs realized that the ignoranti could be a powerful tool, they became a product. Those millions of maga people you mention have been and are groomed continually to be tools for enabling the transfer of wealth. They are groomed with fear, misinformation, manipulation, appeals to tribalism, and appeals to uncertainty. They are groomed so effectively that they groom themselves and their own children.
Where’d ya go? Were looking to do the same.
It’s called false consciousness. The workers are socialized through media, religion, and other social institutions, to identify with and support the ruling class. You see this in the way they adore Elmo Skum. I’ve known IT workers who bragged about the fancy car they basically bought for their manager.
Yes, it’s a Marxist perspective. But Marx wasn’t wrong.
Can’t trust the random public anymore. It’s a real shame. There has been a massive shift in my perception of these people.
They’d just blame the system and the party for the choice they chose to make. Chicken shits.
There is an option in your settings so you don’t see upvotes or downvotes on individual comments.
None of these imaginary points matter.
(Lemmy is rad)
I don’t care about the points. I’d like the drive-by magas to stop for a discussion sometime.
…the sad part is that perhaps half those MAGAs aren’t necessarily bad people, but they’re so profoundly indoctrinated by its disinformation sphere that they legitimately believe their support serves a greater good…
…the other half are outright evil, though…
Best is to let them go into poverty and famine, and go extinct
The French solution
Trickles down on the rich.
“Upward transfer”
“Theft” is the word
Hey, yanks, until your centre right party (the Democrats) is willing to go all in and run candidates at all levels of government on the slogan of “The Largest Downward Transfer of Wealth in American History”, your far right party (the Republicans) will keep repeating this. But if it makes you feel better, go back to blaming Muslims in Michigan or whatever.
The swing voters in the US is dumb as a brick.
They care a lot more about “culture war” issues.
“Swing Voter” == “Too Embarrassed To Admit Being A Republican”
So make “tax the rich” a culture war thing. Left populism is a winning strategy too.
How? The largest campaign that ever occurred for taxing the rich was occuring by AOC and Bernie around the U.S. The media will air something about Trump taking a green shit after drinking a blue slupee far more. It doesn’t matter until they switch the notion to something that threatens the media and their families lives more than likely. They own the media.
Don’t ask me, a random guy on the internet. Ask your elected representatives, your intellectuals, your think tanks. Your civil society, man, not some random Canadian online.
You’re the one telling us the obvious, as if it was easy to do and we just weren’t smart enough to think of it first.
Left populism is a winning strategy too.
Not if its surpressed in (social) media, unfortunately.
As horrific as it sounds, the US very much needs a ‘Democrat Trump.’ But even that can’t happen in the current media environment. There are all sorts of proposals to address that, but the problem seems to be that people can’t help themselves and keep using Twitter, watching Fox, stay glued to Facebook or whatever.
Trump used to run as a democrat, so we already have that.
Don’t hate the 1%, hate the gays!
The democrats are in on it too and it doesn’t matter how many candidates they have politically aligned with the public’s best interest. I keep saying this but the only way to break out of this loop is for both parties to split and take a large chunk of resources with them with they do. They also need to eliminate the “CEO” position for any party and all vote for the primary candidates instead of making arbitrary decisions. I get it, you need a leadership for housekeeping reasons, but the current RNC and DNC CEO’s are not at all about housekeeping for the greater good. All of it is lip service while they take tax-free “political contributions” from all those shady “SuperPACS” . This is all wishful thinking and I’m just hear along for the ride in the billionaire made hand basket to hell.
For republicans, “wealth transfer” is a dirty phrase if used in any shape or form that leans towards fairness, a level playing field, and equality. However, handing money to the already wealthy and fuck everyone else is perfectly acceptable wealth transfer.
Well they have all been promised since the Reagan era that it would all trickle back down. I’m sure it will start doing that any day now.
Soon there will be a critical mass of people who have nothing left to lose
Considering the entire history of the US is one big upwards transfer of wealth, that is really saying something.
Again lol. U guys have not realized that two party system does not work …
It’s working exactly as intended.
This. This is the truth.
Many of us realize that it’s broken, but voting doesn’t seem to fix it…
Yep voted for a long long time and tried to be progressive. At this moment I just want this to be over, so whatever the worse is.
So far
That’s what they said about his last tax bill.
The largest upward transfer of wealth so far…
And it was true then too
The poor die so the rich can get richer.
