American planners wanting to draw something?
They rather use AI to generate their shitty ideas.
It’s billionaire cabal planners. The world is a juicy apple to them. America is just one more country. Not much special about it anymore.
Guangzhou, China
Anti-Homeless Spikes to keep them from finding shelter from the rain.China has an oversupply issue in housing construction in general. it is… as if the problem is not merely building too few houses (as some us centric yimby people believe) but rather an unjust system of resource distribution?
maybe solve a housing crisis instead?
Is this whataboutism?
No because the post is specially about how the Chinese don’t do this, so it’s relevant.
But you don’t understand how big the US is! We can fit two Chinas in Texas! And we can put five Texases in Texas! Omg it’s so huuuuge you guys, public transportation would just not work here, like, ever!!
- some bootlicker, probably
Before Trump, America had democracy and no trains
Now it has no trains and no democracy
This comment section goes to weird places, man.
Kinda like what few American trains still operate. O.o
Man up, America! Two hours each way in crushing, soul destroying traffic is PATRIOTIC. What’s good for billionaires is good for the Regular Guy in the job.
Ha, I get it! This is funny because there are no American planners.
American planner here. We don’t actually get to plan shit. We end up being the middlemen between developers and Council. We explain all the rules we didn’t get to make, the developers explain to council how hlthey don’t even want to follow those rules, then Council overrules us and gives the devs whatever they want.
I have seen it in action in city council meetings.
No shortage of American planners. They just work in hedge funds and board rooms
I stand corrected!
So it’s not funny? Oh dear
Lmao no imagine being the guy who designed that
“You want me to draw what ?”
“Torture bus stop. Make spikes that stick into their butts. But, uh… make it look 🌠Geometric🌠, so we can pass it off as an innocent post-modernist design quirk.”
Can you also make the overpass racist?
purposefully designs the overpass to pass over a black community and evicts them all
*This is actuslly how roads were built in cities the past century. The project “segregation by design” has extremely good archiving of this
I think they were referring to Robery Moses, who purposefully designed overpasses too low for buses so buses from black neighborhoods couldn’t go to Jones Beach anymore.
purposefully designs the overpass to pass over a black community and evicts them all
Adds black history mural along the same overpass
The amount of black/brown neighborhoods in Milwaukee with random infrastructure is absurd. Like why is there an entrance to the highway on this side street?
Hostile architecture. When you only want to fight the symptoms, not the cause.
My county paid money to put up signs at intersections specifically telling people not to give money to the homeless
You should vandalize those, unironically
Same. They were all over the place when I lived in the city. I made a habit of taking a can of spray on my walks and tagging them.
There’s this intersection in Milwaukee where there’s a painting of a homeless looking immigrant holding a cardboard sign that says don’t give money to homeless people.
My city has a few of those, but specifically in places where the structure of the intersection has an island somehwre right in the middle of traffic, and people were being hit by cars frequently. Go pan handle somewhwre you’re not likely to be run over.
But the disdain extends to the elderly and pregnant women when it comes to our bus stops. They don’t have seats at all anymore. They even ripped out the seats that used to exist.
go panhandle somewhere you aren’t likely to get run over
Again, fighting the symptoms and not the cause. Cause, god forbid, we have pedestrian friendly infrastructure.
Pedestrians getting hit by cars is not the fault of the pedestrian. It is the result of inconsiderate drivers not paying attention with their two ton death machines and infrastructure designed to cater to drivers at the expense of being hostile to pedestrians
We’re not talking about pedestrians on planned intersections. We’re talking about not encouraging people to run onto an active highway. It’s rather hard to design a system for pedestrian safety and for drivers to avoid accidents when people break all the rules.
That’s what they get for actively contributing fresh meat to that sick society.
I doubt even the chinese can build a train line from scratch in 3h
The train should move the people that distance in 3h, not be planned in 3h
Whoosh
That’s what she (the train) said
How dare you assume the trains gender, they used to be a she
Conveniently, that bus stop also punishes anyone else who makes the mistake of waiting for a bus there.
Ugh, I just want a bench.
The bus also only arrives once every hour (inconsistently)
At this point they’re getting rid of the shelters entirely. I’d settle for not having to wait for a bus while standing in the rain
But a homeless person might suffer a little bit less if they aren’t wet
Also, if this person wants to take advantage of a homeless shelter they better not be a cigarette smoker or drug addict. Also be prepared to be pat down every time you leave or return the shelter for an hour window. Unless you’re working, then you can leave, you just better not have any deviation from your scheduled times or you’ll be put back out onto the street.
Damn you right. What if we just rip up the sidewalk and replace it with razor wire?
Let’s just skip to the end, plant a spiked sign that says “He who enters here, abandon all hope”, and just run pipes under the sidewalks to make them 80 degrees celsius. Make it look like Mordor, fuck everyone…rich and poor.
But then the poor won’t freeze to death… Can we fit liquid nitrogen in the budget instead?
What’s it with these railway based China propaganda posts?
Yes the US sucks.
Yes you can get a lot done in a totalitarian system.
But: China also sucks.
In Fact, China uses the same kind of hostile architecture:
People moaning about tankie propaganda are missing the point that it’s not about how amazing China is, it’s about how American politicians are letting their people down.
The “because totalitarianism” argument is a non-starter - plenty of functioning democracies have built effective high speed rail. China is being given as an example because they’re a similar size while having much less money; it’s a counter to the “we’re too big” excuses usually made for why small European and SEA countries are also able to do it.
I feel like you can make the point without felating dictatorships and making the false statement that they don’t do the same shit.
Yeah. Can we take Japan as an example perhaps? They’ve got excellent high speed rail too. Also better urban planning in general.
You have problems with China but not with Japan’s elected far-right government? Are you a leftist?
I am, but the fact that Japan’s is elected is quite an important point for me.
Mind you, I’m still happy with the good that China does do, and their investment in rail is great, but as a government system to follow as an example, there are better options out there.
I don’t think anyone wants to follow their system of government, but that government makes some good decisions that we ought to be able to make too.
And it’s not an excuse that it’s just because we’re not as authoritarian, it’s not like we’re just making good decisions slower. We’re not making them at all or actively making opposite decisions. And even worse we seem to be able to make those opposite decisions all too quickly, with no sound basis, and contrary to what voters want
There’s a stark difference between Chinese propaganda and information about positive things in China.
You can post about good aspects of the Chinese society without mentioning the government, let alone glorifying it. Same goes for the USA. If I post that I like American national parks, does that constitute American propaganda? Are we only allowed to hate on those two countries?
Just because the Chinese model is incompatible with the European or American ones, doesn’t mean there’s nothing we can learn from it.
Except hostile architecture exists in China, too, so it is actually propaganda…
Actually, yes. Fuck Yellowstone and fuck Yogi the Bear. I’m gonna go ahead and hate everything in the US and everything in China. EU rules, other places drool! Downvote me if and you dare! I’ve got a baguette and I’m not afraid to use it!
EU rules
I’ve got a baguette
Assuming you’re French: why are you defending a colonial empire with literal colonies such as French Guyana, which keeps hundreds of millions of people in Africa empoverished and underdeveloped through tools such as the CFA Franc or its literal army? Do you also defend the murder of over a million Algerians a whopping 15 years later than WW2?
I made a baguette in the usa just a few days ago, the secret to a perfect midwest baguette is corn syrup for the outside texture, brominated vegetable oil to better combine with the flour and water, and habaneros for taste.
His name is Yogi Bear, not Yogi the Bear
Nope. Trump says it’s the Gulf of America so…
Yogi is now Yogi THE Bear
Tit for tat
Also, Lays’ chips are now Walkers crisps
We’re taking this thing over!
This is propaganda though. At least the other post of OP today gets all the facts wrong. That is clearly not meant to start a good discussion on the topic.
Other democratic countries all manage to have perfectly fine rail systems, it’s not solely the domain of totalitarian governments- just functioning governments.
Much like healthcare, it’s literally just the US government that fucks it up.
For those who want to go the “well Europe/Japan/Korea/China/etc had the advantage of being bombed flat in various wars which made rebuilding for rail easier”, we STILL have plenty of unused, unmaintained rail in the US. We could do this. Hell, you wanna solve unemployment numbers going up? Public works to rehab the right-of-ways that the big companies aren’t using, rehab the rails they ARE using, and suddenly we can AT LEAST enable 100mph trains across the country in less than a decade, and probably bring back passenger rail if we wanted to invest in more rolling stock.
Of course, this means we’d have to lift the steel tariff. And rehab steel mills. And also nationalize good portions of the railway (I’d suggest the entire rail network, and lease usage to the freight companies).
A really sad fact is that rail lines used to connect even the most rural of communities. Many cities removed rail lines to put in roadways.
You can still find rails to a lot of farms in Idaho because that’s how produce used to be shipped.
The big rail companies are a major reason rail sucks in the US. They were given the land for their lines nearly for free with the promise they’d provide public transit. Well, they stopped that. So the US created Amtrak to relieve them of the obligation of public transit with the promise that Amtrak trains would get priority. Well they constantly break that law which makes Amtrak suck with constant delays.
Heck, these companies are at least supposed to be in charge of maintaining the lines, and they don’t do that either. The US has a crazy number of derailments and a big reason for some of them is that the tracks receive little maintenance.
These are still multi billion dollar companies and they do what all giant companies do and nickel/dime everything.
It’s actually worse than that- amtrak was a reagan thing, which was meant to intentionally fail so they could give the passenger rail lines to big freight companies as well.
It was literally meant to fail so they could privatize it, but Amtrak pulled off a miracle. Amtrak is actually really, really good in places they can own their own rail- it’s why they’re really not allowed to build or own their own rail anymore.
Yeah but China’s authoritarian system is how they went from no high speed rail to the most high speed rail in the world in just 25 years. It took Japan 70 years to get where they are now and many European nations more than a hundred.
Maybe also having the largest population in the world had something to do with it. They have way more people to do the work. They also have way more money than Japan to do the work.
And that’s not even considering how they have a lot more land to work with. Easier to put high speed rail through some farmland than to redevelop several urban blocks to create rail infrastructure.
Well, the perk of being an authoritarian regime is that you don’t really have to put the high speed rail on farmland. Urban blocks are fine too if it’s a better path.
Don’t know if you read my comment very well. Regardless of the state’s authority it’s still way easier to develop land that’s not densely populated versus that which is.
Japan is significantly more densely populated
Yes of course, but the easiest might not be the best.
You’re not making sense. Easier just explains why they built more. China has several large cities separated by large swaths of rural land.
Japan is a significantly smaller island that is densely populated.
Mile to mile it is simply more laborious for Japan to construct rail
Where’s that picture of the one house in the middle of a highway because the owner wouldn’t sell/move?
You mean the places that did the actual research and development on how to effectively build (high speed) trains and rail networks took longer to get where they are than the place that could just use already well-established technology? No way!
Don’t get me wrong, there can absolutely be political barriers to having a good rail network (as evidenced by the US), but let’s not pretend you’re comparing apples to apples here.
Sure, it’s much easier when you can just take all the land and built right over anything in your way.
All Western countries can do this too, they just only do it for motorways to subsidize the fossil fuel and car industries instead of something which would actually be good for people.
Still have to buy it though. Zoom in on any green part of China on Google maps, and chances are that is owned by the state.
Doo the same in England, and you hit a field that has been owned by the same family for 500 years.
Since when are European countries no longer part of the West?
I live in Europe and regularly use rail transport here and love it… But even here we barely maintain what we have, almost never build more, and certainly build far more new roading projects than rail ones.
In Germany for example there were 19km of Autobahn and 56.5km of high speed rail line added in the last five years. Rail is an alternative to large roads. So freeways like the Autobahn network is similar to high speed rail, larger local roads with regional rail and four lane or more roads inside cities are tram or metro lines. However for local roads the alternative is cycling and walking paths and even there you probably want some limited access for things like ambulances, trucks(stores or moving large things), firetrucks and so forth. So everybody is building a lot more roads then rail.
The US has such a law, look up emminent domain.
they also regularly abuse it for nonsense.
Then let’s have examples from those EU countries, instead of an authoritarian state.
I see all these posts, and can’t help but think of the thousands of tankies constantly spamming exhausting propaganda on lemmy. There are so many great examples from democratic countries, so I’m suspicious if someone picks China.
I live in the EU, and currently standing in a bus stop. I’m all for public transport, fuck cars. But fuck China, too.
Yes
Then why not use those democracies as examples but post basically the same post within 2 hours about china good?
I tell you why: Propaganda
No, because it makes no difference here.
If I as a European come around and tell Americans how public transport, healthcare, and city planning are just better here, I get to hear the same crap about “propaganda”.
That, or I hear the all too often repeated “BuT thINgs aRe JuSt diFfeRENt HerE!”
Cope
How does the USA have immense road infrastructure then?
You don’t have to be authoritarian to accomplish these things. Even the US built some truly amazing infrastructure very quickly following WW2. They just chose to make it all car based. It was impressive from an engineering perspective, but not very smart
All governments are authoritarian its just China is controlled by the working class in service of the working class so better trains get built.
lol
lol
lol
If you’d like to challenge your bias (which I’d recommend) here’s an overview on the PRC and an article that highlights their whole-process democracy.
But china is bad and so is the US. I know lemmy is tanks as fuck but let’s not treat China the same way Republicans treat the us.
I agree with you that the US is bad (and going further the entire imperial core), but why do you think China is bad?
Because we are allowed to say how much our country sucks and china has far more human rights violations.
Holy shit dude. Your patronizing tone is sooooo hot. You just might convince me to hop off this Trotsky dick.
And your first comment wasn’t patronizing? Trotsky dick can’t be that good, just ask Frida.
You can down vote them all you want but thats what China and their only political party base nearly all policy decisions on.
Would be nice if America would refocus on the working class rather than billionaires.
Tankie you for your opinion!
You aimed to be derogatory, but you missed.
Right? There are other examples.
Because Americans have been complaining “but America is big” when you try to compare other countries, so an example for a equivalent science should be used. Also another notable thing with China is their development is recent enough to show that it’s never too late to start the change.
Saying something good about a country = Propaganda (???)
Propaganda doesn’t mean false, it’s used to manipulate public opinion whether true or false.
So, was this used to manipulate public opinion? I dunno, kinda
This example is also false because China also employs hostile architecture. Hell, they manufacture the stuff for the US.
Incorrect! You see, there was no example offered by me that China does or does not employ hostile architecture, not even the slightest hint of implication.
Why bring up a bad thing thats true for both countries and leave one of them out?
Guangzhou, ChinaPlease note that this is not my post and I did not agree that this claim was even accurate, I have zero idea as to the accuracy of that photo, and it doesn’t matter, as both claims and more can all be “propaganda”
It doesn’t need to be your post to answer that question. The reason why they would do that is because this is blatant propoganda, no need to be on the fence about it.
If it’ll manipulate public opinion into demanding good public transport then great.
Yeah china is much more efficient and cuts out the middle man by just killing the homeless and taking their organs.
Lmfao. Now we have FOX News on Lemmy or what? “THEY’RE EATING THE CATS AND THE DOGS” level shit
???
China’s organ harvesting programs is pretty well known?
Yeah? Where’s the evidence for it then?
Okay, since I’m more than used to people arguing with me in bad faith in the internet.
Tell me, what evidence would I need to show you in order to change your mind?
