Title is a reference to a recent Semi-Ramblomatic video by Yahtzee.
Where do you go or what do you clean in Pong?
If you reduce any game to its core loop, all of them are pretty simplistic. That’s just what happens if you simplify things ad absurdum.
- Counter strike is just running around and shooting people
- BoTW is just walking around, killing monsters and replacing broken weapons
- Need for speed is just driving
- Factorio is just automating everything
And all these things are nothing but tasks.
That said, while this is pretty lame critique, that doesn’t mean that every game is good and it also doesn’t mean that every game is good for every player.
We are just seeking positive feedback.
When you clean that trash pile in the game, it’s as satisfying as cleaning the kitchen at home. but the trashpile in the game stays gone.
The kitchen is a shithole again 3 days after someone gets sick and it becomes another insurmountable task
3 hours. FTFY
<3
What kinda asshole disses Stardew Valley? That game’s awesome.
I tried out Infinity Nikki, finding it visually appealling, mostly out of curiosity what they’d pick for their core gameplay; what would “pique my mind’s interest”. They did kind of give a suite of open world tasks, but there was nothing there that gave the moment-to-moment excitement the same way combat does.
I honestly hate in some ways that our primary activity is just virtually killing things, but it comes out of basic evolution of what ends up being fun and engaging in game design.
it comes out of basic evolution of what ends up being fun and engaging in game design
This is a generalisation, there are plenty of people who enjoy peaceful games more than action games - be it farming games, city builders, puzzle-adventures, and so on. Like even when I played Civ 5, I never went for a combat domination victory (outside of achievements), but preferred science, culture or diplomacy.
Factorio.
You just do tasks to do more tasks.
Fix a bottleneck here, fix one there. Bam 10 hours gone.
Ok lets progress. Let’s make sth. new, ok what do I need for that thing.
This, this and that and this and that. Let me quickly setup a production line for that.
Bam 20 hours gone.
All I am doing is being a slave of the factory
Lies. There is no such thing as fixing the bottleneck. It’s only moving it somewhere else.
This is true… You widen the bottleneck and now another neck has emerged. The real enemy is infinite expansion.
I feel like there’s a lesson about capitalism here 🙃
Factorio is what happens when we shoot rich people to mars.
There is only 1 task in Factorio, the factory mus grow.
Task 2 is killing trees
Stardew Valley lets me feel like that I have a satisfying job, when real corporations would abuse and discard me at their convenience. It is quite the power fantasy, being a productive member of humanity without having to sacrifice myself.
Receive the full value of your labor? It’s absolutely criminal.
Unless you started with enough capital to also receive the full value of other people’s labor.
Tbf you sell stuff via the box which is presumably skimmed for some amount of profit (same in most games in the genre) so it’s not quite a socialist utopia. Some of them are damn close though.
Why even make this about gender at all?
It’s kind of insulting to men who like games like stardew valley and animal crossing. What, are we not man enough because we don’t fill our free time with simulated blood and gore?
They don’t say all men don’t appreciate SDV/AC (the tumblr user says he’s a guy). But it’s basically only men that criticize cozy games.
I think he was ragebaiting tbh
Imagine the same phrasing used to describe something “some” women do…
“Ever notice how women…”
Notice how it’s suddenly not okay? So what’s different about it when it’s phrased the same way about “men”?
Eh, depends on the subject matter. Some things definitely have trends that divided down gender lines, and it’s not sexist to point this out. Men trend towards violence, women trend towards relational and social dynamics. The raw numbers back this up, but there are exceptions (obviously).
Noticing trends is one thing, overgeneralizing is another matter. This is an overgeneralization and it’s harmful because it reinforces traits of toxic masculinity. “If you’re not violent then you’re effeminate” is not the message we should be sending.
This isn’t incorrect. I just tend to disassociate when I see blanket statements about men because I usually don’t fit the description.
It’s good to be vigilant about this stuff but I’m pretty sure this tumblr user is mostly shitposting, and it’s clearly against toxic masculinity. I mean the distilled message of the post is “we are all the same”.
Excusing overgeneralizations when they’re applied to men? That’s typical…
I guarantee you would feel different if someone was overgeneralizing about women. Do they just need to grow thicker skin, or is it only men who are supposed to be stoics?
Like I said above, I agree with you. A similar statement about women would be correctly seen as mysogyny. I’m just stating that it isn’t any more egregious than gestures broadly
It’s double standards
Usually whenever I call out double standards in gender stereotypes, I get some pseudo-feminist responding with something to the effect of “lol chud red pilled ‘not all men!’ lmao. Historical oppression! Suffragettes! Treating men with basic dignity is patriarchy! Demanding a bare minimum of respect is chauvinism!”
and quite frankly it really gets old…
If Barbie’s Horse Adventure had violence, I’d probably try it.
No, I have literally never heard men criticize Animal Crossing or Star Dew Valley for any reason, really. But I guess they do in your head while you shower.
You need to get out more.
There are a lot of people I know who think I am a wuss for playing games that don’t involve shooting people and killing people and whacking people over the head with pipes.
I tell them I run a shop in a shopping centre and they go “that’s not gaming”
I know some children who might think like that.
I don’t know any men who think like that.
tOuCh GrAsS in a dumb video game argument on a forum, gj
I didn’t mean literally get out more. I run a virtual shopping centre - does it sound like I spend a lot of time outdoors?
This is another fallacy men vs women BS attention seeking, ragebait post
It’s not men vs women
It’s people who only play COD and FIFA on consoles vs more involved and open-minded gamers
Sex has nothing to do with this but making it about sex is more headline-worthy…
It’s some capital G Gamer take from the same people hating on walking sims, has been a while since I’ve seen that though. Loud fringe idiots, as usual.
Fuck the generalization but I highly suspect it’s mostly just a tumblr thing/kinda general meme to lead with <obviously overgeneralized group> will…
I have heard a lot of men say that it’s boring/pointless (but shoot thing with gun isn’t)
I mean, they’re entitled to that opinion. If you said an FPS was boring because it’s just shooting people, I wouldn’t be mad, they’re entitled to that opinion too. Although I think you could make a pretty objective argument that a game like Call of Duty is at the very least more stimulating than a game like stardew valley.
I assure you it’s not. You absolutely can lock in on some stardew.
that’s just telling on yourself.
just admit you cultivated a healthy group of men in your life.
How DARE you!
“I haven’t seen the thing so clearly it doesn’t exist”
The original posts implies a large majority is doing a thing. The reply isn’t saying “nobody is doing this” it’s saying “it’s not nearly as common as they are implying”. In which case “I haven’t seen it so it’s not that common” is valid.
Where exactly does it imply majority?
People writing memes and social media posts do not qualify with statements like “a statistically significant number of beavers” when talking about beavers. That is wordy and pointless. We can form basic expectations that the people we interact with don’t make assumptions about 100.00% of any given population.
“ever notice how men criticize games like…” Strongly implies this is a common behavior from men, instead of wording it "ever notice how some people criticize games like…’
So the answer is “nowhere”
Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem
Anything’s possible when you make shit up kiddo
okay, I’ll sacrifice myself for this, here’s my opinion:
I haven’t been able to get into Stardew, it just feels like there isn’t much to do that requires thought. it’s run here, buy a thing, decide where you want to go, buy that thing, maybe do a cave for a bit of something interesting but not too much of that
idk, just didn’t have enough autonomy or choice, for me? and I wasn’t invested in the story at all. seems like a cute mindless game that’s good for relaxing, when you don’t want to mentally tax yourself because you’re gaming to relax. same goes for animal crossing, though I only watched it, never played it. animal crossing seemed like there was more thought involved, actually, as you had more control over stuff. less guided.
so now take those words and twist it into criticism instead of statements about personal preference, I guess, and you’ve got the source of the OP’s comment
SDV is all autonomy and choice. You personally might not enjoy the choices you have available, but the game does not force you in any direction.
Choices you have:
What crops to purchase
How many to purchase
Where you plant them
Do you want to build a bunch of sprinklers
At what quality of sprinklers do you want to start using them
When to upgrade your tools
Do you want to go foraging Do you want to go fishing
Do you want to go increase friendship levels with villagers
Are you focusing on any specific villagers
Do you want to do this random quest
Community center or joja mart
Do you want to go to the mine today
Progress deeper into the mind or stay at levels you’ve explored for the resources they have
What farm buildings to purchase
When to purchase them
Sell this crop or use it as an ingredient
Which of the 20 perks do you want
What is your goal for this specific day
What is your goal for this specific seasonYes, it’s a game that doesn’t require a lot of focus but that doesn’t mean it’s mindless (it’s not a clicker) or that it lacks autonomy. There’s more autonomy in SDV than there is in say Expedition 33 where your choices are: Kill the paintress (not optional), your character build, and do you go to this side area now or come back later?
The take i remember (just one i read on the internet) for animal crossing was that it was too close to home (ie real life) for the real poster. first thing that happens is you get saddled with a huge mortgage/ loan that you have to pay off by doing repetitive tasks, etc, thats its essentialy a participating in capitalism sim, which matches most people’s real life. I think the conclusion was
'instead of playing the game and working off my in game debt, I felt like I should be finding a moderately enjoyable craft/hobby that I can monetize as a side hustle to pay off my IRL debt, like student loans. ’
Stardew is pretty devoid of meaningful choice because it’s devoid of meaningful challenge. Other games in the genre, like Harvest Moon 64 or Rune Factory 4 (no particular reason for those examples, they’re just my favorites in the genre) are defined by taxing time limits, complicated schedules to remember, and so on. Rune Factory 4 even has very challenging dungeons which reward understanding the crafting system and the various skills.
Missed opportunity to mention that Doom Guy loves playing Animal Crossing, and Isabelle loves playing Doom and they’re best friends.
Shotgun Isabelle is my favorite villager. Thanks to her I always know my island will be free of demons in my abscence.
Your friends need you. They always need you.
They never stop. They are rage, brutal, without mercy. But you. You will be worse.
Rip and tear, until it is done.
If SDV was made as a “walking simulators” with decision making, would people still like it?
…I would.
Maybe I’m just getting old, but as another an example, I got into Knights of the Old Republic (the Star Wars MMO). But all that stiff grinding just wasn’t worth the rare view, music, or interesting character arc.
And as I’ve gotten older, I’ve found that more and more gameplay feels “pointless” like that. My brain can engross itself in Satisfactory setups, but after like a day I stop when I realize I’m grinding all alone. I get into Age of Wonders or Stellaris until around mid game, when AI civs get too dumb to be convincing.
So yeah. I think there’s a grain of truth there. I adore SDV, but some aspects do feel like “chores” just to see the passion and writing they gate.
Maybe I’m just getting old
I feel this every day that I can’t get anyone I play with to enjoy more “investment” gaming journeys with me.
Two of my favorite games of all time are Project Zomboid and SCUM.
They are basically life simulators from different perspectives. Project Zomboid is all about micro-managing your daily survival needs and dealing with every little inconvenience or disaster to survive as long as possible, and the organic adventures that just naturally occur as you play, particularly if you play multiplayer and are social. A routine trip to a pharmacy can turn into a week-long epic if someone breaks a leg or you run into hostile players, etc.
For me, this is escapism. For people I want to play with, this is boring and “when does it get good?” and “Why is this so slow?” and basically ruin the experience for me, so I stopped playing with other people and am now a hermit who lives in the woods and avoids people. SCUM is basically rust on survival-steroids and in the vanilla game just finding a bit to eat in a trash can is exciting when you’re just getting started, and the progression is slow and painful but rewarding when you finally get properly geared and have a base and a group.
For many of my (younger) peers, they rather play Battlefield or Marvel Rivals for hours and hours doing the same matches over and over. I don’t get the difference.
KotOR were the single player games Star Wars: The Old Republic is the MMO.
I liked it a lot, personally… for a while.
Can’t say I’ve actually seen anyone complaining about Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing for those reasons, seems like everyone loves Stardew, and AC complaints are just about nintendo’s content pipeline being sparse on release.
That said, if people are complaining about “doing tasks” in Stardew and AC, I’d imagine that it’s because it’s mostly things you can do IRL. I can decorate my place or plant flowers or talk to other people in real life. I can’t go kill bad guys in real life. In a way casual cozy lifesim games make me feel self-conscious, that instead of improving my virtual life, I could instead be doing this same stuff for my real life. Games that are more detached from real life don’t seem as likely to trigger this guilt.
Also I’m fully expecting someone to respond that owning a house/etc is a fantasy, which is the fantastical appeal of Stardew/AC.
I’ll give you one then. My kids love Animal Crossing. It bores me to tears. There’s no real objective and I just don’t get it. I’ve got no problem with them playing it, the game is harmless, but I just can’t get into it.
Mind you, doing things you could do in real life might actually be a major part of the appeal.
Sure, in real life I could grow quality potatoes or power wash a house or drive a truck to a city that’s 400 kilometers away. And I’d get a little bit of dopamine from a job well done – after hours, days, or even months of work. Plus what’s needed to acquire the tools/land/licence necessary to do it in the first place.
Or I play Euro Wash Farm Valley Simulator 2026 and finish the job within half an hour of gameplay that’s just challenging enough for me to feel that I actually did something. While possibly interacting with a cast of charming and/or interesting people along the way.
There’s a reason why job simulators are such a popular genre. They take the interesting bits from a job, drop the tedious parts, and greatly accelerate the whole affair. They’re like working in real life but better.
Except Desert Bus, of course. That one very deliberately isn’t.
Just this week I was with friends, many genders, all of us play Stardew Valley and we all joked and lamented about how task oriented it is, like a list of daily chores. It is ok to acknowledge it and also enjoy it.
I’m not going back through the ZP archives to find it but Yahtzee once likened FPS to point-and-click games where the only command is “use gun on man”
It was his review of the orange box, specifically TF2, even more specifically his review of the sniper.
It’s a funny joke I wish a better person made.
What’s wrong with Croshaw?
He doesn’t use any punctuation.
He does now that he’s gone fully ramblomatic.
He’s less a reviewer and more a comedian, but he only has one bit. Once you know the bit, it stops being funny. It’s been years since I stopped watching him, but I remember him being way too concerned with a game’s fanbase being annoying when deciding on the review.
He’s a good egg, just because you don’t like some of his jokes shouldn’t mean you disparage him as a person. Plus I think this view is extremely uncharitable. He’s an experienced game designer himself and has a lot of insight underneath the humor.
disparage him as a person.
What are you talking about? I never said anything like that.
You literally called him a bad person.
It’s a funny joke I wish a better person made.
No I didn’t. I said I wish it was made by a better person. Not a bad person.
You just defaulted to thinking I could only have one of two extreme opinions. Layoff, it’s not that important.
I guess I can see that if his humor doesn’t appeal to you, but he has plenty of other content where he talks about game mechanics and whatever without trying to put in jokes
In this week’s episode of “tumblr makes up a man to be mad at”.
Apparently, it’s
a reference to a recent Semi-Ramblomatic video by Yahtzee.
…
The title is. The post is just some random thing I saw and tossed into my fodder cart to haul back and feed to lemmy. I agree with the guy above you. However comparing red dead redemption to barbie’s horse adventure amused me so here we are.
